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Post by pinksparklepuff on Dec 11, 2013 16:46:29 GMT -5
Until Orton suffered a head injury and Christian wound up having to take all the bumps.
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 11, 2013 16:49:07 GMT -5
Well nothing KO Taker at Mania, that's not even a counter argument. lol. Lesnar, yea I guess. I'm just wondering if WWE holds Lesnar in higher light then Orton as he appears less. Based on what we've seen lately, I would argue that WWE holds EVERYBODY in higher regard than Orton. He looks like a pathetic loser who cannot win a match without help from The Authority, and who gets slapped around like a b**** by everybody and their mother. Well, no. Not really. Did you forget how much he demolished Cena on the Nov 25th Raw with the belts after taking out the Big Show? Cena got revenge last week by putting him through a table and Orton looks like he lost HHH and Steph this week (after what was an even brawl until Steph got knocked down.) It's an even feud right now. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 11, 2013 16:50:55 GMT -5
Well at least he can just "barely" beat Christian 95% of the time. Nobody can take that away from him. lol I'm not sure if that barely was a joke or being serious. That being said Christian and Orton have had some great matches. They did... but those matches were a long time ago. Has Orton come across as a viable Main Event guy anytime recently that anyone can remember, other than them SAYING he is? |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 11, 2013 16:52:36 GMT -5
Did you forget how much he demolished Cena on the Nov 25th Raw with the belts after taking out the Big Show? I would hardly say he demolished him. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 11, 2013 16:57:04 GMT -5
Did you forget how much he demolished Cena on the Nov 25th Raw with the belts after taking out the Big Show? I would hardly say he demolished him. Well, he knocked him out enough to pose over his prone body with both titles. I'd call that pretty decisive. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 11, 2013 20:24:56 GMT -5
I would hardly say he demolished him. Well, he knocked him out enough to pose over his prone body with both titles. I'd call that pretty decisive. ... which he accomplished by sneak attacking the guy with a belt. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 12, 2013 3:07:39 GMT -5
Well, he knocked him out enough to pose over his prone body with both titles. I'd call that pretty decisive. ... which he accomplished by sneak attacking the guy with a belt. Yes, he's a heel. It's what heels do. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 12, 2013 3:08:52 GMT -5
... which he accomplished by sneak attacking the guy with a belt. Yes, he's a heel. It's what heels do. Not strong heels. I can't believe you're actually arguing this. The fact that Orton has been booked to look extremely weak going into this match is not in question. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 12, 2013 6:39:08 GMT -5
Yes, he's a heel. It's what heels do. Not strong heels. I can't believe you're actually arguing this. The fact that Orton has been booked to look extremely weak going into this match is not in question. If it wasn't in question I wouldn't be arguing it. In the first week of the feud he laid out the big show and John Cena. Regardless of method, he did. The second week of the feud John Cena put him through a table. Then this past week they had a brawl involving them both, 20 former champions which was stopped by Steph being taken out. Neither Cena or Orton were winning this brawl before they were pulled off each other. If you were to score victories or whatever it'd be 1-1 right now. The only perceived weakness Orton has is he is no longer supported by the authority after HHH blamed him for hitting Steph and pedigreed him. Of which Orton wasn't knocked out, merely stunned a little and had the ability to slither into a corner. Some might say Cena has the advantage, I say it has now been evened up. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 12, 2013 7:14:27 GMT -5
Not strong heels. I can't believe you're actually arguing this. The fact that Orton has been booked to look extremely weak going into this match is not in question. If it wasn't in question I wouldn't be arguing it. In the first week of the feud he laid out the big show and John Cena. Regardless of method, he did. The second week of the feud John Cena put him through a table. Then this past week they had a brawl involving them both, 20 former champions which was stopped by Steph being taken out. Neither Cena or Orton were winning this brawl before they were pulled off each other. If you were to score victories or whatever it'd be 1-1 right now. The only perceived weakness Orton has is he is no longer supported by the authority after HHH blamed him for hitting Steph and pedigreed him. Of which Orton wasn't knocked out, merely stunned a little and had the ability to slither into a corner. Some might say Cena has the advantage, I say it has now been evened up. Ridiculous dude. Just ridiculous. The only point you have in favor of the argument you're trying to make is that he once hit a guy from behind and laid him out. Big $#@!ing deal. The fact is that there was no "brawl" on Raw. Orton threw a single punch (that Cena did not sell), and then got his ass kicked. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 12, 2013 7:40:21 GMT -5
If it wasn't in question I wouldn't be arguing it. In the first week of the feud he laid out the big show and John Cena. Regardless of method, he did. The second week of the feud John Cena put him through a table. Then this past week they had a brawl involving them both, 20 former champions which was stopped by Steph being taken out. Neither Cena or Orton were winning this brawl before they were pulled off each other. If you were to score victories or whatever it'd be 1-1 right now. The only perceived weakness Orton has is he is no longer supported by the authority after HHH blamed him for hitting Steph and pedigreed him. Of which Orton wasn't knocked out, merely stunned a little and had the ability to slither into a corner. Some might say Cena has the advantage, I say it has now been evened up. Ridiculous dude. Just ridiculous. The only point you have in favor of the argument you're trying to make is that he once hit a guy from behind and laid him out. Big $#@!ing deal. The fact is that there was no "brawl" on Raw. Orton threw a single punch (that Cena did not sell), and then got his ass kicked. Orton also was mobbed (so was Cena) as soon as that brawl began so they couldn't fight any more. Then the champions turned on each other. Punk took out HHH. Michaels took out punk, Bryan took out Michaels and Orton attempted to rko Cena and was pushed into Steph. HHH blamed him and pedigreed him, to which he recovered almost immediately and backed off into a corner. If Orton was made to look weak at that brawl then I don't know how. I've just asked the girlfriend (she's only been watching wrestling since January and knows nothing about how it works like we do) and she took away from it that all that happened on Monday was that Orton lost HHH and the fight on Sunday is now even. It never even occurred to her he looks weak. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 12, 2013 8:33:14 GMT -5
If that's legitimately the case (and I have trouble understanding how it could be), then you and your GF are the only two people on planet Earth (three if we count justin there) who don't see that Orton has been presented as a weak contender throughout the buildup for this match. Every form of wrestling press from the legit magazines to the dirt sheets, and everyone in every thread I've looked at, is acknowledging that Orton may as well not even be in the match on Sunday.
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justinlynch3
Jobber
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Post by justinlynch3 on Dec 12, 2013 11:06:11 GMT -5
Well at least he can just "barely" beat Christian 95% of the time. Nobody can take that away from him. lol I'm not sure if that barely was a joke or being serious. That being said Christian and Orton have had some great matches. It was meant kinda as a joke. Christian is mid-card to upper-card, Orton is main event. Yet each time they face Christian can take Orton to the brink and Orton just wins via a "RKO from nowhere". So it's a "Orton can barely defeat non-main eventers" joke. I agree though, Orton and Christian generally has good to great matches against one another. |
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Post by setokaiba on Dec 12, 2013 12:54:26 GMT -5
Thing with Orton looking weak is heel are always made to look weak, it's something I consider a problem with WWE booking. Look at someone like Ryback as a face he is a unstoppable monster but as a heel he lose matches left and right while Cole, King and JBL make fun of him(but when he was a face they would talk about how scary he is).
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Post by wildknight on Dec 12, 2013 13:01:07 GMT -5
Thing with Orton looking weak is heel are always made to look weak, it's something I consider a problem with WWE booking. I wouldn't say "always" but I agree with your general premise. A major problem with WWE right now is exactly what you've described. Heels (for the most part) aren't allowed to be strong, particularly not on the upper midcard and higher. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 12, 2013 14:08:24 GMT -5
If that's legitimately the case (and I have trouble understanding how it could be), then you and your GF are the only two people on planet Earth (three if we count justin there) who don't see that Orton has been presented as a weak contender throughout the buildup for this match. Every form of wrestling press from the legit magazines to the dirt sheets, and everyone in every thread I've looked at, is acknowledging that Orton may as well not even be in the match on Sunday. Have I ever given you the impression I do anything other than tell the truth, of course it's legitimately the case. What could I possibly gain from lying? Of course, we are not the only two people on the Earth that believe this. We are just people who are not tainted by the dirtsheets, wrestling press and everyone who looks at inside knowledge. You are looking at it from a "We know what happens inside the ring and how things are meant to be" point of view, I'm talking from the regular guy who doesn't know or care about the ins and outs of wrestling point of view. You say he's booked weak, I say he's only lost his HHH advantage. We're not going to agree on it. |
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Post by WSS? on Dec 12, 2013 14:11:00 GMT -5
Orton's been getting his butt handed to him on a silver platter since he started feuding with D-Bry. He may have sneak attacked Cena with a weapon, but, well, he sneak attacked. With a weapon.
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Post by wildknight on Dec 12, 2013 14:16:05 GMT -5
You are looking at it from a "We know what happens inside the ring and how things are meant to be" point of view, I'm talking from the regular guy who doesn't know or care about the ins and outs of wrestling point of view. LOL no you're not. I guarantee that if you had someone who had never watched wrestling before sit down and watch the last few weeks of programming, they would conclude that Orton is weak and unable to fight for himself. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 12, 2013 14:42:26 GMT -5
You are looking at it from a "We know what happens inside the ring and how things are meant to be" point of view, I'm talking from the regular guy who doesn't know or care about the ins and outs of wrestling point of view. LOL no you're not. I guarantee that if you had someone who had never watched wrestling before sit down and watch the last few weeks of programming, they would conclude that Orton is weak and unable to fight for himself. I'm sorry buddy, but I can't agree with you on this. I know we agree on most things this is just one of the things I don't. If someone had only watched the last two weeks then they might think it, if someone has seen every show since survivor series I don't think so. Again though, regardless it's all standard heel fayre. Heels are meant to look conniving, they are meant to look sometimes weak without their friends to help them and fight sometimes the cowards way. Orton has done standard heel stuff the past few weeks. Don't see how this makes him weak just because he's lost his allies. |
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Post by setokaiba on Dec 12, 2013 14:46:38 GMT -5
Orton's been getting his butt handed to him on a silver platter since he started feuding with D-Bry. He may have sneak attacked Cena with a weapon, but, well, he sneak attacked. With a weapon. Ask Sandow how well attacking someone from behind with a weapon works out.  |
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