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Post by wildknight on Jan 25, 2014 10:52:05 GMT -5
Who conducted this study? I would love to peruse it. While I waste my time violating my own rule about never sourcing arguments on the internet (which I'm doing strictly because I actually need the most recent study in question for something else I'm writing), I always recommend to anyone that thinks that pot isn't "really" a drug to head on over to good ole drugabuse.gov and check out the mountains of scientific evidence that has been compiled regarding everything from it's supposed non-addictiveness (which is bullshit) to it's supposed similarity to alcohol in terms of general effects (which is bullshit) to the notion that it causes no long term effects (which is, shockingly, bullshit). They've got a great explanation of how THC (the very element that they've been increasing in pot for the last 30 years to make it more potent) has serious repercussion on brain function in a bright blue box for people who can't be bothered to actually read lengthy explanations. Almost every single thing that the mainstream media claims about marijuana is utterly false. There is no evidence that smoking marijuana has a medicinal effect that cannot be achieved without some other medicine that doesn't involve getting high (the marijuana PLANT has medicinal elements though). There is plenty of evidence that smoking marijuana is directly involved in all sorts of erratic behavior. The number of violent crimes committed by people who are drunk is recorded... for some reason, the number of violent crimes committed by people who are high is not in most jurisdictions, despite the fact that we know that paranoia and impaired judgment are part of marijuana's broad spectrum of effects. |
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Post by WSS? on Jan 25, 2014 11:14:39 GMT -5
I just don't see unapologetic drug users as particularly self-aware human beings. If your life philosophy involves any version of the "if it feels good, do it" formulation, I have difficulty reconciling that with the trait of "humility", which inherently calls one to accept a greater order than one's own immediate desires. I'd count that as stupidity, not arrogance. |
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Post by wildknight on Jan 25, 2014 11:16:12 GMT -5
I just don't see unapologetic drug users as particularly self-aware human beings. If your life philosophy involves any version of the "if it feels good, do it" formulation, I have difficulty reconciling that with the trait of "humility", which inherently calls one to accept a greater order than one's own immediate desires. I'd count that as stupidity, not arrogance. ... I'll stand by arrogance, but either way, it's a distinct lack of self-awareness. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jan 25, 2014 11:24:42 GMT -5
This argument about marijuana is one I often find myself in with people at my school. That's because 90% of the people at my school are under the illusion that marijuana is actually good for you...
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Post by wildknight on Jan 25, 2014 11:31:12 GMT -5
This argument about marijuana is one I often find myself in with people at my school. That's because 90% of the people at my school are under the illusion that marijuana is actually good for you... That's not just your high school. That's the way our world is now. That said... I would actually be in support of legalization of marijuana based on the fact that adults in this country are supposed to be able to do things that have negative repercussions for their own lives and bodies if they so choose. The only reason I vote against it is because they keep pushing the "medical" marijuana issue. My deal is this; if you're lying to get your way, I'm not going to help you. Sorry. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 11:41:33 GMT -5
Who conducted this study? I would love to peruse it. While I waste my time violating my own rule about never sourcing arguments on the internet (which I'm doing strictly because I actually need the most recent study in question for something else I'm writing), I always recommend to anyone that thinks that pot isn't "really" a drug to head on over to good ole drugabuse.gov and check out the mountains of scientific evidence that has been compiled regarding everything from it's supposed non-addictiveness (which is bulls***) to it's supposed similarity to alcohol in terms of general effects (which is bulls***) to the notion that it causes no long term effects (which is, shockingly, bulls***). They've got a great explanation of how THC (the very element that they've been increasing in pot for the last 30 years to make it more potent) has serious repercussion on brain function in a bright blue box for people who can't be bothered to actually read lengthy explanations. Almost every single thing that the mainstream media claims about marijuana is utterly false. There is no evidence that smoking marijuana has a medicinal effect that cannot be achieved without some other medicine that doesn't involve getting high (the marijuana PLANT has medicinal elements though). There is plenty of evidence that smoking marijuana is directly involved in all sorts of erratic behavior. The number of violent crimes committed by people who are drunk is recorded... for some reason, the number of violent crimes committed by people who are high is not in most jurisdictions, despite the fact that we know that paranoia and impaired judgment are part of marijuana's broad spectrum of effects. I'm not looking to dispute, argue with, or attack you in any way on this subject. My intrigue with the survey stems from my life outside of these boards. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Jan 25, 2014 11:43:48 GMT -5
I think that anyone who has such extreme views on marijuana either way is being kind of foolish. I've known countless people who smoke pot on a regular basis and while there are several who just stare at their tv and think that their 4:20 clock is the coolest thing in the world and several others who got into the harder drugs and died of an overdose there are plenty who lead productive lives, have successful jobs and raise loving families.
As everyone knows I have zero interest in marijuana but to just assume that everyone who does is a lesser person because of it is extremely judgmental. You might as well think that I'm a lesser person for loving porn, lord knows I'm not giving that up anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 11:43:50 GMT -5
That said... I would actually be in support of legalization of marijuana based on the fact that adults in this country are supposed to be able to do things that have negative repercussions for their own lives and bodies if they so choose. I Agree! |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jan 25, 2014 11:45:01 GMT -5
I think that anyone who has such extreme views on marijuana either way is being kind of foolish. I've known countless people who smoke pot on a regular basis and while there are several who just stare at their tv and think that their 4:20 clock is the coolest thing in the world and several others who got into the harder drugs and died of an overdose there are plenty who lead productive lives, have successful jobs and raise loving families. As everyone knows I have zero interest in marijuana but to just assume that everyone who does is a lesser person because of it is extremely judgmental. You might as well think that I'm a lesser person for loving porn, lord knows I'm not giving that up anytime soon. First off that's anecdotal, second off just because people go off and live successful lives while using pot doesn't mean much. There are also countless people who lived successful lives while using cocaine and other high risk drugs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 11:45:07 GMT -5
I think that anyone who has such extreme views on marijuana either way is being kind of foolish. I've known countless people who smoke pot on a regular basis and while there are several who just stare at their tv and think that their 4:20 clock is the coolest thing in the world and several others who got into the harder drugs and died of an overdose there are plenty who lead productive lives, have successful jobs and raise loving families. I have observed this as well |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jan 25, 2014 11:46:35 GMT -5
Also Mike, how do you KNOW their families are so good? Do you know what happens when they're home by themselves? Families in public are often completely different behind closed doors.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 11:49:31 GMT -5
Also Mike, how do you KNOW their families are so good? Do you know what happens when their home by themselves? Families in public are often completely different behind closed doors. Speaking of anecdotal, you could turn around and question your point replacing "good" with "bad" |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jan 25, 2014 11:51:10 GMT -5
Also Mike, how do you KNOW their families are so good? Do you know what happens when their home by themselves? Families in public are often completely different behind closed doors. Speaking of anecdotal, you could turn around and question your point replacing "good" with "bad" Um, no not really. If a guy beats his wife in public do you think they're going to be all lovey dovey when they're at home? |
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Post by wildknight on Jan 25, 2014 11:52:27 GMT -5
I think that anyone who has such extreme views on marijuana either way is being kind of foolish. I've known countless people who smoke pot on a regular basis and while there are several who just stare at their tv and think that their 4:20 clock is the coolest thing in the world and several others who got into the harder drugs and died of an overdose there are plenty who lead productive lives, have successful jobs and raise loving families. As everyone knows I have zero interest in marijuana but to just assume that everyone who does is a lesser person because of it is extremely judgmental. You might as well think that I'm a lesser person for loving porn, lord knows I'm not giving that up anytime soon. The truth is never extreme. Marijuana and, while we're on the subject, pornography, have serious repercussions to individual health, to say nothing of broader cultural implications. Luckily for me, I haven't been pussified by the political correctness movement, and therefore know that the word "judgmental" is right up there with the word "bigot" as terms that people use to shut down discussions that make them uncomfortable, owing nothing to whether the position in question is demonstrating behavior that is bigoted or judgmental. If telling the truth about what marijuana is and how it effects people is "judgmental" then so be it... I'm fine with being judgmental of people who lack the self-awareness to recognize negative behaviors in their lives as negative behaviors in the first place. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Jan 25, 2014 11:54:11 GMT -5
I think that anyone who has such extreme views on marijuana either way is being kind of foolish. I've known countless people who smoke pot on a regular basis and while there are several who just stare at their tv and think that their 4:20 clock is the coolest thing in the world and several others who got into the harder drugs and died of an overdose there are plenty who lead productive lives, have successful jobs and raise loving families. As everyone knows I have zero interest in marijuana but to just assume that everyone who does is a lesser person because of it is extremely judgmental. You might as well think that I'm a lesser person for loving porn, lord knows I'm not giving that up anytime soon. First off that's anecdotal, second off just because people go off and live successful lives while using pot doesn't mean much. There are also countless people who lived successful lives while using cocaine and other high risk drugs. Of course it's anecdotal. Sometimes you need to live life by looking at things with your own eyes and going by your own subjective experiences rather than just believing everything that other people tell you. The hardcore advocates are the super stoners and the ones bending over backwards to warn you away from it are the people in government. Frankly if you trust either one you're a buffoon. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Jan 25, 2014 11:57:26 GMT -5
Also Mike, how do you KNOW their families are so good? Do you know what happens when they're home by themselves? Families in public are often completely different behind closed doors. There's a certain level of familiarity and trust that comes with being good friends with somebody for twenty or thirty years. How do YOU know that the people I refer to are necessarily bad? Oh right, the pot. :rolleyes: |
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Post by wildknight on Jan 25, 2014 11:58:02 GMT -5
Also Mike, how do you KNOW their families are so good? Do you know what happens when their home by themselves? Families in public are often completely different behind closed doors. Speaking of anecdotal, you could turn around and question your point replacing "good" with "bad" Yes, but no one is claiming that anyone has an inherently "bad" family in this case, so I would ask "what's your point?" Nobody is arguing that smoking pot will always destroy every element of your life. The point is that it has serious negative repercussions that, for cultural reasons, we don't talk about and in fact, frequently outright lie about. The argument that "because some people use it and still have a decent life" is a non-starter. There are people who use heroine for years and maintain decent families, have successful careers, etc. Very few people are out there trying to argue that heroine isn't a destructive influence. The primary reason we're debating marijuana is that it was the drug of choice for the baby boomer generation, and one of their primary legacies to the two generations that followed is widespread use and abuse of marijuana in youth culture. I find this argument particularly odd as tied to the notion of pot being a "gateway drug" which has somehow become a running gag in pro-marijuana circles, even though all of the evidence suggests that the one area where marijuana is significantly more harmful than alcohol is the fact that amongst those who start using them in their teen years, marijuana use is significantly more likely to lead to the use of other drugs. *shrugs* Ultimately, what I MOST take issue with is the lack of honesty involved. |
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Post by WSS? on Jan 25, 2014 12:01:42 GMT -5
If I had my way, prohibition would be a thing again. As far as I see, alcohol and drugs cause nothing but bad things.
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jan 25, 2014 12:02:19 GMT -5
Also Mike, how do you KNOW their families are so good? Do you know what happens when they're home by themselves? Families in public are often completely different behind closed doors. There's a certain level of familiarity and trust that comes with being good friends with somebody for twenty or thirty years. How do YOU know that the people I refer to are necessarily bad? Oh right, the pot. :rolleyes: I never said they were bad. You still can't possibly know what happens with them behind closed doors when you're not around... |
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Post by miketheratguy on Jan 25, 2014 12:02:20 GMT -5
I think that anyone who has such extreme views on marijuana either way is being kind of foolish. I've known countless people who smoke pot on a regular basis and while there are several who just stare at their tv and think that their 4:20 clock is the coolest thing in the world and several others who got into the harder drugs and died of an overdose there are plenty who lead productive lives, have successful jobs and raise loving families. As everyone knows I have zero interest in marijuana but to just assume that everyone who does is a lesser person because of it is extremely judgmental. You might as well think that I'm a lesser person for loving porn, lord knows I'm not giving that up anytime soon. The truth is never extreme. Marijuana and, while we're on the subject, pornography, have serious repercussions to individual health, to say nothing of broader cultural implications. Luckily for me, I haven't been pussified by the political correctness movement, and therefore know that the word "judgmental" is right up there with the word "bigot" as terms that people use to shut down discussions that make them uncomfortable, owing nothing to whether the position in question is demonstrating behavior that is bigoted or judgmental. If telling the truth about what marijuana is and how it effects people is "judgmental" then so be it... I'm fine with being judgmental of people who lack the self-awareness to recognize negative behaviors in their lives as negative behaviors in the first place. Being judgmental means sitting atop a high horse and passing...you know, judgment on other people who you deign to be lesser human beings in your eyes because of their own personal choices. You're better than that. And pointing out that you're passing broad judgments on a multitude of people that you don't even know somehow means that, in your eyes, I'm now a PC pussy? Man, you're on a roll this morning. |
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