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Post by miketheratguy on Mar 6, 2014 19:36:39 GMT -5
The Beatles made some absolutely fantastic songs. They were also so prolific that they made hordes of crappy, forgettable songs. I feel that they're overrated, but I really love some of their stuff. Pretty much the same way I feel. Everyone remembers the classics (deservedly so, in my opinion), but they forget all the throwaway filler in between. And there was a lot of it. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:37:32 GMT -5
I don't follow the Beatles that closely but my understanding is that John was being asked about the group's popularity and basically expressed his confusion about American priorities by saying "wow, we're bigger than Jesus". Then the media was like "JOHN LENNON PROCLAIMS THE BEATLES TO BE GREATER THAN CHRIST". If that IS what he was trying to say I wouldn't know, it's not how I heard it. Uh, no. Not even close. The incident went like this; a journalist was touring John Lennon's house and noticed that he had a bunch of books in his library. She asked what he was reading and he explained that he had been reading about the decline of Christianity, which read the the aforementioned quote. Lennon was rabidly anti-Christian, something which for some reason is rarely mentioned when his fans drone endlessly about how he was all about love, etc. Lennon actually said much worse things about Christians and Christianity, including once essentially saying that Hitler was correct to round up and execute Catholics for the greater good of the populace, but again... this never gets mentioned because, hey, he was the voice of a generation or something. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:38:31 GMT -5
I have yet to ever hear a Beatles song that even remotely justified their popularity.
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Mar 6, 2014 19:39:06 GMT -5
The quote doesn't surprise me really. John probably more or less saw Jesus as a hippy preaching peace and interpreted the disciples as misunderstanding his message. Regardless, they often screwed with people and were controversial anyway much like their album cover for Yesterday and Today  |
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Mar 6, 2014 19:40:32 GMT -5
I don't follow the Beatles that closely but my understanding is that John was being asked about the group's popularity and basically expressed his confusion about American priorities by saying "wow, we're bigger than Jesus". Then the media was like "JOHN LENNON PROCLAIMS THE BEATLES TO BE GREATER THAN CHRIST". If that IS what he was trying to say I wouldn't know, it's not how I heard it. Uh, no. Not even close. The incident went like this; a journalist was touring John Lennon's house and noticed that he had a bunch of books in his library. She asked what he was reading and he explained that he had been reading about the decline of Christianity, which read the the aforementioned quote. Lennon was rabidly anti-Christian, something which for some reason is rarely mentioned when his fans drone endlessly about how he was all about love, etc. Lennon actually said much worse things about Christians and Christianity, including once essentially saying that Hitler was correct to round up and execute Catholics for the greater good of the populace, but again... this never gets mentioned because, hey, he was the voice of a generation or something. Wow, I didn't know any of that. |
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Mar 6, 2014 19:42:24 GMT -5
I guess it's not to surprising though that he was anti-Christian considering the first lines of Imagine being "Imagine there's no Heaven"
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Post by miketheratguy on Mar 6, 2014 19:43:18 GMT -5
I don't follow the Beatles that closely but my understanding is that John was being asked about the group's popularity and basically expressed his confusion about American priorities by saying "wow, we're bigger than Jesus". Then the media was like "JOHN LENNON PROCLAIMS THE BEATLES TO BE GREATER THAN CHRIST". If that IS what he was trying to say I wouldn't know, it's not how I heard it. Uh, no. Not even close. The incident went like this; a journalist was touring John Lennon's house and noticed that he had a bunch of books in his library. She asked what he was reading and he explained that he had been reading about the decline of Christianity, which read the the aforementioned quote. Lennon was rabidly anti-Christian, something which for some reason is rarely mentioned when his fans drone endlessly about how he was all about love, etc. Lennon actually said much worse things about Christians and Christianity, including once essentially saying that Hitler was correct to round up and execute Catholics for the greater good of the populace, but again... this never gets mentioned because, hey, he was the voice of a generation or something. Yeah, having heard the full quote it comes across as far less casual and "misunderstood" than I thought. He has every right to have his beliefs and express them publicly but I'm a bit surprised to hear them. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:44:41 GMT -5
I guess it's not to surprising though that he was anti-Christian considering the first lines of Imagine being "Imagine there's no Heaven" It's not just Christianity he $#@!ed up though... Lennon bought wholesale into the ridiculous "spritualism" of that period. The entire song "Instant Karma" represents a colossal misrepresentation of what "karma" is and how it works (within the context of the faith that created the concept). Lennon was led astray by "spiritual" leaders who used mind altering chemicals to achieve "enlightened" states... so it's no surprise that his brain wasn't firing on all cylinders. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 6, 2014 19:45:25 GMT -5
I guess it's not to surprising though that he was anti-Christian considering the first lines of Imagine being "Imagine there's no Heaven" It's not just Christianity he $#@!ed up though... Lennon bought wholesale into the ridiculous "spritualism" of that period. The entire song "Instant Karma" represents a colossal misrepresentation of what "karma" is and how it works (within the context of the faith that created the concept). Lennon was led astray by "spiritual" leaders who used mind altering chemicals to achieve "enlightened" states... so it's no surprise that his brain wasn't firing on all cylinders. I hate those types of people... And I know plenty of them. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:46:24 GMT -5
He has every right to have his beliefs and express them publicly but I'm a bit surprised to hear them. He has every right to believe whatever he wants... but people have every right to believe he's a $#@!ing idiot for it. The only thing I'm thankful for, when it comes to Lennon, is that he wasn't killed by a Christian but by one of his "fans." I'd rather he have not been murdered at all, of course, but it drives me nuts personally when Christians respond to ignorance with ignorance. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Mar 6, 2014 19:46:59 GMT -5
I guess it's not to surprising though that he was anti-Christian considering the first lines of Imagine being "Imagine there's no Heaven" It's not just Christianity he $#@!ed up though... Lennon bought wholesale into the ridiculous "spritualism" of that period. The entire song "Instant Karma" represents a colossal misrepresentation of what "karma" is and how it works (within the context of the faith that created the concept). Lennon was led astray by "spiritual" leaders who used mind altering chemicals to achieve "enlightened" states... so it's no surprise that his brain wasn't firing on all cylinders. This is basically true of the 60s in general which is why it would have been my least favorite decade to grow up in. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:47:12 GMT -5
It's not just Christianity he $#@!ed up though... Lennon bought wholesale into the ridiculous "spritualism" of that period. The entire song "Instant Karma" represents a colossal misrepresentation of what "karma" is and how it works (within the context of the faith that created the concept). Lennon was led astray by "spiritual" leaders who used mind altering chemicals to achieve "enlightened" states... so it's no surprise that his brain wasn't firing on all cylinders. This is basically true of the 60s in general which is why it would have been my least favorite decade to grow up in. Absolutely. |
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Mar 6, 2014 19:49:10 GMT -5
He has every right to have his beliefs and express them publicly but I'm a bit surprised to hear them. He has every right to believe whatever he wants... but people have every right to believe he's a $#@!ing idiot for it. The only thing I'm thankful for, when it comes to Lennon, is that he wasn't killed by a Christian but by one of his "fans." I'd rather he have not been murdered at all, of course, but it drives me nuts personally when Christians respond to ignorance with ignorance. Didn't Mark Chapman claim he was a Christian and that God told him to kill Lennon? Or was it Stephen King? www.lennonmurdertruth.com/ |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:50:25 GMT -5
Chapman? I don't think so. The only thing I remember about Chapman was his obsession with Catcher in the Rye.
... which is, btw, a really really stupid book.
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 19:51:26 GMT -5
Stephen King killed John Lennon is now my favorite conspiracy theory ever.
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Mar 6, 2014 19:55:14 GMT -5
In 1971, Chapman became a born again Christian (Presbyterian) and distributed Biblical tracts.
He had been a big Beatles fan, idolizing Lennon, and played guitar himself, but turned on him after becoming born-again; like many born-again Christians, he was angered at Lennon's comment that the Beatles were "more popular than Jesus." In the South there were demonstrations, album burnings, boycotts, and projectiles were thrown. Some members of Chapman's prayer group at Columbia High had sung a twisted version of Imagine referring to Lennon being dead.[7] Chapman's childhood friend Miles McManushe recalls him referring to the song as "communist". Jan Reeves, sister of one of Chapman's best friends, reports that Chapman "seemed really angry toward John Lennon, and he kept saying he could not understand why John Lennon had said [that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus]. According to Mark, there should be nobody more popular than the Lord Jesus Christ. He said it was blasphemy."[11]
Chapman had later also been influenced by reading in a library book (John Lennon: One Day at a Time by Anthony Fawcett) about Lennon's life in New York. According to his wife Gloria, "He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]." Chapman later said that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music."[11]
He said that he chose Lennon after seeing him on the cover of The Beatles' album, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. He also recalls having listened to Lennon's John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band album in the weeks before the murder and has stated: "I would listen to this music and I would get angry at him, for saying that he didn't believe in God... and that he didn't believe in the Beatles. This was another thing that angered me, even though this record had been done at least 10 years previously. I just wanted to scream out loud, 'Who does he think he is, saying these things about God and heaven and the Beatles?' Saying that he doesn't believe in Jesus and things like that. At that point, my mind was going through a total blackness of anger and rage. So I brought the Lennon book home, into this The Catcher in the Rye milieu where my mindset is Holden Caulfield and anti-phoniness."[11]
Chapman also said that he had a further list of people in mind, including Johnny Carson, Marlon Brando, Walter Cronkite, Elizabeth Taylor, George C. Scott, and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, but that John Lennon seemed to be the easiest to find. He separately said that he was particularly infatuated by Lennon. He also considered committing suicide by jumping from the Statue of Liberty.[12] Chapman's planning has been described as 'muddled'.[13] Chapman went to New York in October 1980, intending to kill Lennon.[9] He left for a short while in order to obtain ammunition from his unwitting friend in Atlanta, Dana Reeves, and returned to New York in November.
After being inspired by the film Ordinary People, Chapman returned to Hawaii, telling his wife he had been obsessed with killing Lennon. He showed her the gun and bullets, but she did not inform the police or mental health services. He made an appointment to see a clinical psychologist, but before it occurred he flew back to New York, on December 6, 1980.[7] Chapman says that the message "Thou Shalt Not Kill" flashed on the TV at him, and was also on a wall hanging put up by his wife in their apartment; on the night before the murder, Chapman and his wife discussed on the phone about getting help with his problems by first working on his relationship with God.[11]
All of that is from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 6, 2014 20:01:52 GMT -5
Stephen King killed John Lennon is now my favorite conspiracy theory ever. Pfft, you must of missed the aphrodisiac bubble gum conspiracy theory. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 20:08:48 GMT -5
Heh, interesting.
Chapman DID kill Lennon "for God." How disappointing.
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Post by skylerb97 on Mar 6, 2014 20:54:52 GMT -5
Heh, interesting. Chapman DID kill Lennon "for God." How disappointing. well that and the fact that he had a very disturbed childhood and states another big purpose for doing it is the whole "he felt offended by the were more popular then Jewus remark" but I do think it's somewhat good for him to acknowledge that he regretted doing it and that it wasn't worth it. I've heard he had planks to kill different celebrities one of them being Elisabeth Taylor but he decided to go with Lennon. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 6, 2014 20:56:42 GMT -5
I'm not saying that it never happens... but whenever someone in prison talks about how sorry they are, I wonder if they're sorry that they committed the crime, or that they're in prison for it.
Regardless, I never advocate reducing a sentence because someone "finds God" or otherwise shows guilt.
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