Wrestlemania XIX and the loy buyrate....

[sychosid1]

This is across many forums on the internet but I want all of your opinions. I understand I have made so many threads today (im in a discussion mood lol) but lets continue...

Wrestlemania XIX (19) had a buyrate of about 550,000, which was roughly 275,000 less compared to Wrestlemania X-8. Now WM 19 was considered the second best Wrestlemania of all time from a lot of people I talked to, which delivered great matches and had a strong starpower going into the show.

I know some of you's watched RAW and Smackdown back in 2003, so why do you guy's think WWE had such a low buyrate? I only had watched all PPVs in 2003 and not any of the shows so I wouldn't have any idea. Does Brock Lesnar come into this because I red some buyrates and during Lesnar's time as champion, the company was doing terrible numbers compared to 1997 on the Smackdown branded PPVs.

Thoughts on this? Im curious because I considered it the best Wrestlemania of all time.

Btw, I posted this on the 2k forums but I wanted to hear all ya'll opinions.

[muta75]

does that factor in the subscription to wwe network, that could be a reason the ppv numbers were down...

[sychosid1]

Wrestlemania XIX = Wrestlemania 19? Not 30

[miketheratguy]

You've got to remember that no one knew whether Wrestlemania, like any PPV, would actually be good until after they'd seen it. I've seen great shows that were nothing special on paper and I've also been excited for great-sounding shows that failed to deliver. A buyrate is never an indication of the actual quality of the show. I happen to be one of the people who feel that Wrestlemania 19 was the second-best Mania of all time (after 17, of course) and this would hold true regardless of how many people bought it or the way that it was marketed.

You also have to remember that there was something very special about Wrestlemania 18: Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock. Not only was it the first time that Hogan had been back in the company in nearly a decade, it was the first time that he had ever faced a modern superstar of The Rock's caliber. It was unprecedented, for many people it was a dream match that they never thought they'd see. While I myself am personally a fan of Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle and greatly enjoyed their match, I readily admit that their WM19 match was simply not the marquee headliner that Rock v Hogan was.

Lastly, there's the fact that things such as buyrates simply can't increase into perpetuity. There are just too many uncontrollable variables to ever realistically expect each year to be more successful than the last. Strangely enough, the Hollywood film industry hasn't figured that out yet.

[sychosid1]

I red regarding the build-up was that the event was sorely focused on Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon as the true main event and that the event had gotten a lackluster buildup and like you said, Angle/Lesnar isn't comparable to Rock/Hogan the previous year.. But what doesn't make sense is that wasn't Jericho/HHH hyped as the main event on top of Rock/Hogan?

[miketheratguy]

Apr 27, 2014 3:20:20 GMT -5 sychosid1 said:

I red regarding the build-up was that the event was sorely focused on Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon as the true main event and that the event had gotten a lackluster buildup and like you said, Angle/Lesnar isn't comparable to Rock/Hogan the previous year.. But what doesn't make sense is that wasn't Jericho/HHH hyped as the main event on top of Rock/Hogan?

It actually makes perfect sense: Rock v Hogan was simply the matchup that everyone was talking about. People were insane for Hulk Hogan's return. In this age of using the past as a crutch and seeing people exactly like Hogan bouncing back and forth between promotions all the time it's easy to forget that Hogan's first return in 2002 was an incredible thing to a lot of people. He'd been gone from the company for 8 years and with Hall and Nash had forged a new and wildly popular identity completely independent of the company that launched him. It was assumed that he was done with WWE for good so when he actually came back the fans, now grown, unleashed a tidal wave of nostalgia and embraced it as the second coming of Hulkamania. It didn't last, as these things usually don't, but there's no mistaking the absolutely rabid reaction that people had at the time.

While it's not fair to Triple H and Jericho, who had been the guys that did all the work leading up to Hogan's return in February of 2002 (at the Bradley Center, the beloved childhood arena where I attended so many old-school WWF events), it was the right business move. Supposedly Jericho hadn't done great business as the champion and the popular belief is that he was a lame duck, basically just keeping the title warm until  Triple H could take it, so that particular main event may have been something of a tough sell to begin with. Whether it was or wasn't, Hogan's presence in the de facto main event of Wrestlemania was pretty much etched in stone. The audience was batshit crazy for him, they were batshit crazy to see a beloved modern legend take him on, and it only made sense to hype the hell out of it because it's what the people were dying to see. For better or worse, it's the match that most people remember from that show.

[sychosid1]

Why was it so lackluster then? I mean everyone wanted him to return but why was the entire NWO return such a failure? Being Nash and Hall included?

[shiningwizard]

Well, WCW running NWO into the ground for about 5 years didn't help much, plus, Nash got injured a few times and Hall got fired not long after Mania, so it was just a failure anyway

[sychosid1]

Well let's say if these plans that weren't scrapped actually happened...

- The Rock vs Goldberg
- Triple H vs Steve Austin

Would the buyrate be bigger? Let's add the planned match... What would of been bigger?

- The Rock vs Hulk Hogan
- Kurt Angle vs Sting (The planned match for WM 18 which was close to happening)

[shiningwizard]

Meh, probably not much anyway, but sure 19 was great anyway (one of my personal favourites)

[sychosid1]

I think 19 was much better than 17. 17 had a great undercard, but I wasn't too satisfied with the main event.

[shiningwizard]

I honestly liked ROck/Austin's 19 match more than the other 2, there 17 match wasn't the greatest if there wasn't the heel turn at the end

[sychosid1]

I actually was bored at Rock/Austin at 17. The match went 40 minutes and I ended up watching about 30 and skipping the rest.

[shiningwizard]

There 15 match was decent enough, 17 was just about the ending (which was pretty good imo)

[sychosid1]

The ending I enjoyed but the match after the first 20 minutes was a snorefest in my opinion...

I enjoyed 19's because it only went about 20 minutes lol.

[shiningwizard]

19 wasn't no holds barred or no dq or anything like that, it was just a better match imo, not just alot of brawling on the outside

[sychosid1]

No 17 was No DQ, 19 was just a normal match lol. The ending was very dramatic.

[miketheratguy]

Apr 27, 2014 4:13:22 GMT -5 sychosid1 said:

Would the buyrate be bigger?

There's just no way to know with certainty. If anyone could accurately predict what would always guarantee the biggest buyrate, WWE would have hired them by now.

As for the nWo, several things happened. For one, Hogan's return was greeted with more enthusiasm than WWE and Hogan himself seemed prepared for. The supposed original plan of keeping Hogan heel and having him face people like Austin were scrapped when Hogan got the response that he did (to the point that The Rock was booed when fighting him, despite being the face). Whether it was planned or not (and nothing I've seen suggests that it was), Vince turned Hogan face pretty much immediately which basically led to the early demise of WWE-era nWo. Austin threw a hissy fit and walked out of the company literally the very next day after Wrestlemania so his planned feud with Scott Hall went nowhere. It didn't really matter because soon enough Hall got back into his old habits anyway. I think Nash may honestly have injured himself again and by this point Hogan had already beaten Triple H for the title that he won from Jericho at Wrestlemania.

So in other words the nWo was effectively disbanded literally one month (to the day) after they debuted in the WWE and there weren't really any factors in favor of them trying to make it work after that.

[miketheratguy]

Apr 27, 2014 5:02:47 GMT -5 sychosid1 said:

No 17 was No DQ, 19 was just a normal match lol. The ending was very dramatic.

The third Rock / Austin match was the worst. I mean it was okay but nothing on the level of the knockdown, drag-out brawls that made up the first two. Shame, since Rock finally got to win this one. I've heard that it wasn't spectacular because Austin was broken or sore from his neck or knee problems or something like that.

[sychosid1]

Apr 27, 2014 5:04:46 GMT -5 miketheratguy said:

Apr 27, 2014 4:13:22 GMT -5 sychosid1 said:

Would the buyrate be bigger?

There's just no way to know with certainty. If anyone could accurately predict what would always guarantee the biggest buyrate, WWE would have hired them by now.

As for the nWo, several things happened. For one, Hogan's return was greeted with more enthusiasm than WWE and Hogan himself seemed prepared for. The supposed original plan of keeping Hogan heel and having him face people like Austin were scrapped when Hogan got the response that he did (to the point that The Rock was booed when fighting him, despite being the face). Whether it was planned or not (and nothing I've seen suggests that it was), Vince turned Hogan face pretty much immediately which basically led to the early demise of WWE-era nWo. Austin threw a hissy fit and walked out of the company literally the very next day after Wrestlemania so his planned feud with Scott Hall went nowhere. It didn't really matter because soon enough Hall got back into his old habits anyway. I think Nash may honestly have injured himself again and by this point Hogan had already beaten Triple H for the title that he won from Jericho at Wrestlemania.

So in other words the nWo was effectively disbanded literally one month (to the day) after they debuted in the WWE and there weren't really any factors in favor of them trying to make it work after that.

1) Of course but WWE doesn't want to overload on main events but a double main event would of been perfect. Just like the proposed main event of Wrestlemania 13 of Austin vs Shawn and Taker vs Bret (I think it was).

2) I red a pretty credible report a few weeks ago that the plan coming out of Wrestlemania 18 was Hulk Hogan & The Rock vs The Outsiders at Backlash, and I red a interview what happened with Austin, but I can't remember anything even though it was credible.