|
|
Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 19:30:14 GMT -5
I don't personally agree. While A New Hope is my least favorite of the original trilogy (due mainly to the fact that I find it the most crude, clumsy, simplistic, and relatively boring of the three) I still feel that it's a technically capable film that had a great charm and featured interesting, likeable characters in service of a story that was fun and easily digestible. What did The Phantom menace do that was akin to any of this? What did TPM do that was even any good? It had pretty special effects, I guess I'll give it that. While you are right about the charm and easily digestible story (TMP tried to do too much political gaming) ANH only had one character that stood out as likeable over TPM and that was Han Solo. His kind of character was badly missed. That and a major badass antagonist like Darth Vader. The decision to have 3 seperate bad guys as like henchmen bosses behind Palps kinda hurt the story a little. Personally I'd have given Darth Maul all 3 films as Palp's apprentice and for Anakin to dispatch him when he turned to the dark side instead. Luke was a whiney bitch in ANH - just as bad as Anakin. Obi Wan was in both R2D2 was in both C3PO was in both Leia was really not that interesting to me until empire and could easily have been Amidala. They are pretty much the exact same character up to a point. It suffered from bad pitching and years of obsessive Star Wars fans imagining how good it would be. |
|
|
|
Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 19:44:09 GMT -5
I actually think Han Solo is overrated (which isn't to say that I dislike him because I certainly don't). I did find him likeable, just as I liked Luke, Vader, Obi-Wan, and as a kid the robots. Leia is okay, honestly never gave two shits about Chewbacca.
TPM did have Obi-Wan, yes, and to be fair I don't have much against Ewan's performance. But aside from the bookending moments of the film I didn't feel that he really had much to add other than appear interested in what was going on from the sidelines. I'm a fan of Qui-Gonn so there's that too. Everyone else? Fuck 'em. The new droids were crap. Anakin was crap, Amidala was crap, C-3PO and R2D2 were irrelevant and didn't even need to be in it, Watto was insipid, the weird Asian aliens were just awkward, the Jedi council was mostly laughable and / or forgettable and Jar jar can fuck himself sideways.
There was nothing charming about TPM and very little that was actually likeable. Rather than a fun, earnest (if not, again, crude and sometimes boring) escapist fantasy like A New Hope, TPM reeked of artless, cash-grabbng automation.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 19:47:08 GMT -5
*eyeroll*
1) The script for ANH was actually very strong
2) The acting in ANH, with the exception of some Mark Hamill bits, is actually very strong
3) ANH was not "the same thing" as TPM but 20 years earlier. Thematically and practically, they're very different films.
|
|
|
|
Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 19:53:22 GMT -5
*eyeroll* 1) The script for ANH was actually very strong 2) The acting in ANH, with the exception of some Mark Hamill bits, is actually very strong Nah. |
|
|
|
Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 20:21:04 GMT -5
*eyeroll* 1) The script for ANH was actually very strong 2) The acting in ANH, with the exception of some Mark Hamill bits, is actually very strong Nah. Yes, I know, you bought in. What's pathetic is that the claims you're making were initially created by a bunch of jealous wanna-be filmmakers who could barely manage to get jobs teaching film classes in college, and got their panties in a wad when the answer to their 'what is the greatest film of all time?" surveys continually turned up Star Wars rather than "respectable" art films like Citizen Kane and The Godfather. The exact same back-assward mentality that almost kept Star Wars from being made in the first place became the war cry of a bunch of bitter anti-populists, and the great irony of it all is that they abandoned all objectivity in the process. |
|
|
|
Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 20:38:48 GMT -5
Again, you're stuck in this weird place of "No one can legitimately like something I don't or dislike something that I do".
I don't care much for the acting in Star Wars because it is, by and large, poor. There's very little to recommend in The Phantom menace and the script is probably the FIRST problem I have with it. It's a fucking mess. As for movies appearing on lists, I find it funny that when you want to support something you bring up public consensus but the rest of your time is spent talking about how the public is a bunch of follower fanboys. Why do you say people love Star Wars? Because they all have great taste. Why do you say people hate transformers? Because they're part of "The Lemming mafia". You can't have it both ways.
Star Wars IS a great film. It's also a flawed film, and as someone who's quick to point out bias in others you should sometimes reflect upon your own lack of objectivity. Just because you love A New Hope doesn't mean that it's beyond fair criticism, and just because someone else doesn't love it with the same fervor that you do doesn't mean that they're "anti-populists".
As for the lists, I've never seen Star Wars top one "best film ever made" list in my life. It's often, as you correctly suggested, The Godfather (which I love) or Citizen Kane (which I don't).
|
|
|
|
Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 20:44:41 GMT -5
Again, you're stuck in this weird place of "No one can legitimately like something I don't or dislike something that I do". ... or maybe I just have a strong negative reaction to a complete lack of objectivity and/or education as to what lends a movie "quality." Objectively, untrue. But they ARE anti-populists. You can literally track the movement of opinion toward Star Wars (specifically, ANH) and see the point in the early 80's at which claims that the script was bad, acting was bad, etc began to crop up, and you can then in turn trace those claims back to a bunch of impressionable college students who in turn got those opinions from their film class and literature professors. I don't suffer from a lack of objectivity about ANH. I suffer from other peoples' lack of objectivity about ANH. (TPM I don't disagree with you about, bad scripting, bad acting... pretty much nothing about it was "good" in any fashion.) For the record, I'm not the one trying to "have it both ways." You are. I'm insisting on objectivity in both instances. |
|
|
|
Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 21:01:57 GMT -5
You know better than to accuse me, of all people, of being unobjective. I love the original Star Wars trilogy. I'm well aware of the fact that most people consider ANH to be on par with, and in some cases superior to, TESB. That doesn't change anything. The acting in A New Hope is, like much of the rest of the film, crude and cheesy. That doesn't mean I don't like the film, it just means that I'm recognizing something that, despite its strengths, is not particularly impressive.
And again, I still don't know why you continue to insist that someone who doesn't like something that you do feels the way he does because he has no mind of his own. You're right, I don't dislike certain aspects of A New Hope because I've seen the movie enough to reach my own conclusions. I dislike them because I researched this anti-Star Wars movement and decided that it was a cool gang that I wanted to be a part of. :rolleyes:
Seriously, if you're really that hung up on the idea that the acting in the original Star Wars film is honestly something to be impressed by then I don't know what more to say because I feel it's abundantly clear that it isn't. I'm sorry, directing a person to talk about Kessel runs and foul stenches in a manner that's "faster and more intense" does not powerful acting make.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 21:03:24 GMT -5
The acting in A New Hope is, like much of the rest of the film, crude and cheesy. That is your opinion. I don't think that it's an objective one. |
|
|
|
Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 21:06:18 GMT -5
...Yet your own opinion is objective because you say "The acting is good".
I think we have to agree to disagree here.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 21:08:53 GMT -5
...Yet your own opinion is objective because you say "The acting is good". I think we have to agree to disagree here. No, my opinion is objective because the acting in the film met the generally accepted benchmarks for decent acting (with a few off moments). |
|
|
|
Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 21:12:45 GMT -5
*Shakes head*
Agree to disagree.
|
|
|
|
Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Dec 3, 2013 7:52:56 GMT -5
I've never really been a fan of transformers, honestly. I did kind of like the first movie, but more so because I'm a fan of Shia LaBeouf than anything. I didn't like the second. I admittedly didn't and won't watch anything after the horrible second film.
|
|
|
|
Post by SoonDragon67 on Dec 3, 2013 7:55:39 GMT -5
I've never really been a fan of transformers, honestly. I did kind of like the first movie, but more so because I'm a fan of Shia LaBeouf than anything. I didn't like the second. I admittedly didn't and won't watch anything after the horrible second film. The third one is even worse. Also Shia LaBeouf has a strange thing where most of the movies he is in are utter failures. |
|
|
|
Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Dec 3, 2013 8:01:27 GMT -5
I've never really been a fan of transformers, honestly. I did kind of like the first movie, but more so because I'm a fan of Shia LaBeouf than anything. I didn't like the second. I admittedly didn't and won't watch anything after the horrible second film. The third one is even worse. Also Shia LaBeouf has a strange thing where most of the movies he is in are utter failures. Holes Transformer (I only count this because he is the only reason I watched the movie and got me semi-interested) Disturbia Eagle Eye. IMDB also says he's in I Robot and Constantine (even though I don't remember him in those and he may be a small role or big role) and I liked both of those movies. I like all of those movie |
|
|
|
Post by wildknight on Dec 3, 2013 11:29:16 GMT -5
LeBeouf can act, and I've enjoyed him in just about everything. For some reason, a lot of people seem to find him off-putting. I don't get it, but to each their own I suppose. I definitely think the third Transformers movie was better than the second... it may have actually been the best of the three in objective quality, but it doesn't "feel" better than the 1st one to me because it's so much "more of the same" when it comes to the running gags, etc. A lot of people couldn't get over certain elements (like the Transformer that looked like a human) but those elements didn't bother me nearly so much. My biggest beef with 3 is "everything is a Transformer now!" Vehicles were already a stretch to the imagination. Why on Earth would they want to be pop machines and toasters???
Disturbia... wholly underrated film. I really liked it.
(In Constantine, he's the cabby/sidekick character)
|
|
muta75
Jobber
RONDA ROUSEY IS THE BEST FIGHTER ON THE PLANET
Posts: 3,606 
|
Post by muta75 on Dec 3, 2013 11:48:48 GMT -5
Disturbia was excellent
David Morse is a fantastic actor
|
|
|
|
Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Dec 3, 2013 11:50:11 GMT -5
LeBeouf can act, and I've enjoyed him in just about everything. For some reason, a lot of people seem to find him off-putting. I don't get it, but to each their own I suppose. I definitely think the third Transformers movie was better than the second... it may have actually been the best of the three in objective quality, but it doesn't "feel" better than the 1st one to me because it's so much "more of the same" when it comes to the running gags, etc. A lot of people couldn't get over certain elements (like the Transformer that looked like a human) but those elements didn't bother me nearly so much. My biggest beef with 3 is "everything is a Transformer now!" Vehicles were already a stretch to the imagination. Why on Earth would they want to be pop machines and toasters??? Disturbia... wholly underrated film. I really liked it. (In Constantine, he's the cabby/sidekick character) Disturbia is an amazing film that had both humor and suspense, which is what I really like. Add a funny Asian and Shia and I'm going to love the movie, lol. Oh, yeah. I remember him in Constantine now. I guess when I watched it back then, I didn't realize it, lol. |
|
|
|
Post by Straight Edge Steve on Dec 3, 2013 17:21:04 GMT -5
The soul reason that I like Transformers is due to the awesome 1986 Transformers movie. I dare anyone to attempt to name one movie with a better soundtrack.
|
|
|
|
Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Dec 3, 2013 17:23:50 GMT -5
The soul reason that I like Transformers is due to the awesome 1986 Transformers movie. I dare anyone to attempt to name one movie with a better soundtrack. 8 Mile Curious George or any movie really..... |
|
