WrestleClown
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King Clown of FOS
It's hard to creep up on people in clown shoes, but I do just fine.
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Post by WrestleClown on Jul 8, 2014 23:21:04 GMT -5
Placing someone in a feud with someone else who is more popular isn't always the key to success. However, to say that no one has or can use John Cena as a platform for the lesser known is untrue. *Honk* I agree completely. I just don't think that Miz or Edge were good examples, lol. I think they're good examples. Both guys were known as mid-carders before their feuds with Cena. John Cena was established as a main eventer before he feuded with either of them, and during (and after) their feuds, they (Edge and Miz respectively) were main event ready/already main event material. Miz was tossed back down through the ranks by the end of it, and his main event status was relatively short lived. Edge maintained his main event status, but entered stupid storylines with Vickie Guerrero. *Honk* |
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Post by Straight Edge Steve on Jul 8, 2014 23:26:04 GMT -5
I agree completely. I just don't think that Miz or Edge were good examples, lol. I think they're good examples. Both guys were known as mid-carders before their feuds with Cena. John Cena was established as a main eventer before he feuded with either of them, and during (and after) their feuds, they (Edge and Miz respectively) were main event ready/already main event material. Miz was tossed back down through the ranks by the end of it, and his main event status was relatively short lived. Edge maintained his main event status, but entered stupid storylines with Vickie Guerrero. *Honk* Edge is legendary in that sense. Not many men can be outside of the top 3 and still stay on top. |
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:30:29 GMT -5
I agree completely. I just don't think that Miz or Edge were good examples, lol. I think they're good examples. Both guys were known as mid-carders before their feuds with Cena. John Cena was established as a main eventer before he feuded with either of them, and during (and after) their feuds, they (Edge and Miz respectively) were main event ready/already main event material. Miz was tossed back down through the ranks by the end of it, and his main event status was relatively short lived. Edge maintained his main event status, but entered stupid storylines with Vickie Guerrero. *Honk* I just don't think either of their careers actually propelled from that point.... I most certainly don't think either of them gained anything from their feuds with Cena, as neither of them were in bad positions before, and neither of them were in good positions during. I kind of think, and you may have mentioned this, that Wyatt would be a better example than either of them when it comes to being benefited from Cena. Maybe even Ryback (didn't he feud with Cena? I think it was him). Being a second thought to Cena didn't benefit Edge at all, in my opinion. However, as far as Miz, I'm trying to sway away from that as apparently I'm talking about a different feud, and I can't remember the one you're talking about. I seem to only remember the horrible one about the 1-0 thing, despite me knowing that there obviously was another feud. I'm pretty sure he won the belt from Cena, but I can't remember the feud in anyway. |
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:32:10 GMT -5
I think they're good examples. Both guys were known as mid-carders before their feuds with Cena. John Cena was established as a main eventer before he feuded with either of them, and during (and after) their feuds, they (Edge and Miz respectively) were main event ready/already main event material. Miz was tossed back down through the ranks by the end of it, and his main event status was relatively short lived. Edge maintained his main event status, but entered stupid storylines with Vickie Guerrero. *Honk* Edge is legendary in that sense. Not many men can be outside of the top 3 and still stay on top. Sure they can. A lot of people in the Attitude Era were pretty big, even the jobbers. I'm not saying Main Event status, but they definitely got their names out there. I hate the attitude era, but I do love the fact that everybody was involved in something, even Godfather and Big Bossman. Yes, I like the Godfather. Sue me. |
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WhoCares?
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 8, 2014 23:36:02 GMT -5
Woah, how exactly did either Wyatt or Ryback benefit from their feuds with Cena?
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:38:21 GMT -5
Woah, how exactly did either Wyatt or Ryback benefit from their feuds with Cena? Neither of them are anything. They suddenly go to the main event scene. Yeah, that's a benefit, even if the feud sucks. You don't see many NXT people, despite how over they are, automatically going to the main event scene. However, I'm not sure if Ryback was in NXT, I just know he went from nowhere, to main event feuds, one of them being Cena. |
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WrestleClown
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It's hard to creep up on people in clown shoes, but I do just fine.
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Post by WrestleClown on Jul 8, 2014 23:39:35 GMT -5
I think they're good examples. Both guys were known as mid-carders before their feuds with Cena. John Cena was established as a main eventer before he feuded with either of them, and during (and after) their feuds, they (Edge and Miz respectively) were main event ready/already main event material. Miz was tossed back down through the ranks by the end of it, and his main event status was relatively short lived. Edge maintained his main event status, but entered stupid storylines with Vickie Guerrero. *Honk* I just don't think either of their careers actually propelled from that point.... I most certainly don't think either of them gained anything from their feuds with Cena, as neither of them were in bad positions before, and neither of them were in good positions during. I kind of think, and you may have mentioned this, that Wyatt would be a better example than either of them when it comes to being benefited from Cena. Maybe even Ryback (didn't he feud with Cena? I think it was him). Being a second thought to Cena didn't benefit Edge at all, in my opinion. However, as far as Miz, I'm trying to sway away from that as apparently I'm talking about a different feud, and I can't remember the one you're talking about. I seem to only remember the horrible one about the 1-0 thing, despite me knowing that there obviously was another feud. I'm pretty sure he won the belt from Cena, but I can't remember the feud in anyway. Miz? Not afterwards, no. Well, Edge's did. He main-evented shows and won more championships from that feud with on. Both Edge and Miz were midcarders before their feuds with Cena. Like I said, it's not Cena's responsibility for what happened afterwards. It's also shouldn't go to Cena's credit for each championship they win afterwards. However, Cena should be acknowledged as the platform used to help get them to their high points. I would have mentioned the Wyatts, but a lot of people didn't care about that match (Some did). Also, I think Cena ended that feud with a victory. I do agree to an extent, though. Ryback also had the build from winning matches upon matches (Goldberg style) before taking on Cena. A lot of people would say that Ryback's flaws were on full display once they tried to push him as main event material. I remember the 1-0 thing. Yeah, it went no where. *Honk* |
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WhoCares?
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 8, 2014 23:43:05 GMT -5
Woah, how exactly did either Wyatt or Ryback benefit from their feuds with Cena? Neither of them are anything. They suddenly go to the main event scene. Yeah, that's a benefit, even if the feud sucks. You don't see many NXT people, despite how over they are, automatically going to the main event scene. However, I'm not sure if Ryback was in NXT, I just know he went from nowhere, to main event feuds, one of them being Cena. Ryback's feud with Cena is what ended him being in the main event scene. He was already there when he was feuding with Punk. As for Wyatt, he wasn't put over and is back in midcard. |
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:46:50 GMT -5
I just don't think either of their careers actually propelled from that point.... I most certainly don't think either of them gained anything from their feuds with Cena, as neither of them were in bad positions before, and neither of them were in good positions during. I kind of think, and you may have mentioned this, that Wyatt would be a better example than either of them when it comes to being benefited from Cena. Maybe even Ryback (didn't he feud with Cena? I think it was him). Being a second thought to Cena didn't benefit Edge at all, in my opinion. However, as far as Miz, I'm trying to sway away from that as apparently I'm talking about a different feud, and I can't remember the one you're talking about. I seem to only remember the horrible one about the 1-0 thing, despite me knowing that there obviously was another feud. I'm pretty sure he won the belt from Cena, but I can't remember the feud in anyway. Miz? Not afterwards, no. Well, Edge's did. He main-evented shows and won more championships from that feud with on. Both Edge and Miz were midcarders before their feuds with Cena. Like I said, it's not Cena's responsibility for what happened afterwards. It's also shouldn't go to Cena's credit for each championship they win afterwards. However, Cena should be acknowledged as the platform used to help get them to their high points. I would have mentioned the Wyatts, but a lot of people didn't care about that match (Some did). Also, I think Cena ended that feud with a victory. I do agree to an extent, though. Ryback also had the build from winning matches upon matches (Goldberg style) before taking on Cena. A lot of people would say that Ryback's flaws were on full display once they tried to push him as main event material. I remember the 1-0 thing. Yeah, it went no where. *Honk* I seem to remember Edge already being in the main even scene. Wasn't he in the elimination chamber and feuding with HBK at the time? Feuding with HBK is something big, but then again, maybe my timeline's off. I also thought he feuded with Triple H for the championship before he even did anything John Cena-wise. I, despite many, like the Goldberg style of build. Of course many just think the jobber beatdown building is garbage, but it also sends a sense of demolition. The only difference is, the mystery of Goldberg was, in my opinion, awesome. Ryback however was ruined by the fact that I knew he was Skip Sheffield, a guy I hate, and by the fact that people called him Goldberg. I can find more differences between Goldberg and Ryback than I can similarities. I think his flaws were always in display though. |
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:49:01 GMT -5
Neither of them are anything. They suddenly go to the main event scene. Yeah, that's a benefit, even if the feud sucks. You don't see many NXT people, despite how over they are, automatically going to the main event scene. However, I'm not sure if Ryback was in NXT, I just know he went from nowhere, to main event feuds, one of them being Cena. Ryback's feud with Cena is what ended him being in the main event scene. He was already there when he was feuding with Punk. As for Wyatt, he wasn't put over and is back in midcard. Exactly. Cena's feud was a chance for him to shine. It was a chance for both of them to shine. Neither did. Also, neither of them were anywhere beforehand. The whole Ryback/Punk thing was garbage. Of course, that could just be my hatred of the feud in general. |
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WhoCares?
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 8, 2014 23:51:34 GMT -5
Ryback's feud with Cena is what ended him being in the main event scene. He was already there when he was feuding with Punk. As for Wyatt, he wasn't put over and is back in midcard. Exactly. Cena's feud was a chance for him to shine. It was a chance for both of them to shine. Neither did. So, how exactly are they a better example than Edge, considering they didn't benefit from it? |
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:54:42 GMT -5
Exactly. Cena's feud was a chance for him to shine. It was a chance for both of them to shine. Neither did. So, how exactly are they a better example than Edge, considering they didn't benefit from it? Because, unlike Edge and Miz who were already well established (also, Miz I've continuously said that I don't know what happened, so I don't know why Miz keeps getting brought up, as I've said I may be wrong because I can't remember), Wyatt and Ryback were not. They went directly to the top. They were benefited because they were given a chance at the top with what WWE thinks to be the top superstar. The fact that they sucked prevented anything bigger, but like Clown keeps saying, that's not Cena's fault. |
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 8, 2014 23:56:58 GMT -5
Also, I didn't mean to say that Miz was well established, just Edge.
Though I'm willing to bet he was more established than both Wyatt and Ryback, lol.
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WhoCares?
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 8, 2014 23:58:47 GMT -5
I would continue this, but sleepiness is getting the better of me. I will attempt to answer that tomorrow.
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Post by BaneTheDestroyer on Jul 9, 2014 0:48:21 GMT -5
I would continue this, but sleepiness is getting the better of me. I will attempt to answer that tomorrow. I wasn't here anyways, lol.. |
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Post by wildknight on Jul 9, 2014 9:03:05 GMT -5
All I can say is that there is a massive, fundamental misunderstanding of what the word "benefit" means in terms of a wrestling career. One big feud/program is NOT a benefit. Having "that one big feud" has stalled and destroyed hundreds of careers over the years.
A "benefit" in the wrestling world is when a worker is propelled to a lengthy career of significant rivalries and Main Events. Guys who work with Cena generally do not "benefit" in the long term. Saying that working with Cena was the height of their career does not show that they gained a benefit from doing so. For many of them, working with Cena was the death knell of promising gimmicks, if not entire careers.
I'm not saying this to bag on Cena or accuse Cena of "burying" people (although he frequently does bury gimmicks, with his promo style). The problem is not Cena. The problem is the company and it's complete terror at the thought of doing anything new or unexpected.
Everyone knows that I hate the Ultimate Warrior... but Warrior going Over Hogan was a big deal in the wrestling world, and it made Warrior's career. Warrior never had a "good" match in his entire WWF run, but the hype created by him beating Hogan made him a legit Main Event guy to the point that there are fans to this day who insist that his match with Savage was a "good match" in spite of Warrior's complete and utter incompetence in the ring.
... speaking of Savage, he's one in a long line of guys who legitimately saw "benefit" from working with top guys (in this case, Hogan). Hogan beat Savage, but he didn't diminish Savage in the process, and because of that, Savage was able to go on and be a believable Champion many times over. That's not what is happening with guys like Bray Wyatt today. If Bray Wyatt won a title at the next PPV, nobody would buy it, because Cena laughed off Wyatt's oogity-boogity gimmick, took everything Wyatt had to offer, and still managed to destroy the entire Wyatt family in a stretcher match (or whatever that travesty was). It would take a year to re-build Wyatt to be a believable Championship contender at this point. I'm flabbergasted as to how you people feel that it was a "benefit" to him 8)
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muta75
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Post by muta75 on Jul 9, 2014 11:02:37 GMT -5
the warrior poppa shango program was gold...pure gold
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muta75
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RONDA ROUSEY IS THE BEST FIGHTER ON THE PLANET
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Post by muta75 on Jul 9, 2014 11:06:21 GMT -5
interesting thing that they did giving Rollins new gear while having Reigns work in what is basically SHEILD gear and Ambrose in street clothes. i find that interesting..
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Post by wildknight on Jul 9, 2014 11:37:13 GMT -5
the warrior poppa shango program was gold...pure gold The promos; yes. The matches; no |
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muta75
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RONDA ROUSEY IS THE BEST FIGHTER ON THE PLANET
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Post by muta75 on Jul 9, 2014 12:16:30 GMT -5
the warrior poppa shango program was gold...pure gold The promos; yes. The matches; no wait....they had matches? why would they do that? |
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