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Post by skylerb97 on Feb 27, 2014 18:58:50 GMT -5
It's interesting that Barack Obama is the first black president of the United States. I guess the starry-eyed news outlets didn't think that his election would have been quite as historical if they'd chosen instead to highlight the fact that he's also the 44th white one. this is to true for me to attend to deny. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Feb 27, 2014 18:59:25 GMT -5
Abraham Lincoln instantly came to mind. James Madison also came to mind not long afterwards. I don't dispute that but I do disagree with his general public perception by the more uneducated population that he's a hero for drafting the Emancipation proclamation. When there are quotes with him basically saying he was in favor of white supremacy. But that thinking was common in his day, and maybe his opinion changed later on in life. His opinion did change later on in life. His second inaugural address is perhaps the greatest indicator of this.(it's also a fairly good read) The Emancipation Proclamation was more so a war strategy, and that strategy worked. Also what about James Madison? |
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Post by skylerb97 on Feb 27, 2014 19:03:48 GMT -5
I don't dispute that but I do disagree with his general public perception by the more uneducated population that he's a hero for drafting the Emancipation proclamation. When there are quotes with him basically saying he was in favor of white supremacy. But that thinking was common in his day, and maybe his opinion changed later on in life. His opinion did change later on in life. His second inaugural address is perhaps the greatest indicator of this.(it's also a fairly good read) The Emancipation Proclamation was more so a war strategy, and that strategy worked. Also what about James Madison? Lincoln was the only one I knew enough about to offer a rebuttal although an incorrect one. With Madison I'll just take your word for it as your probably correct |
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Post by setokaiba on Mar 2, 2014 18:33:43 GMT -5
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 18:39:18 GMT -5
... where are these quotes from Lincoln showing he agreed with white supremacy? I would love to read them, then find the context of them, then tell you how you're misinterpreting them. Lincoln wrote about the equality of the races while he was still in law school, which means any quotes that are actually remembered by him would have to have come from after that point, and at that point, he already recognized the essential humanity of blacks.
Now, let's pretend for a second that Lincoln WAS a white supremacist. If that, by your standard, makes him a scumbag, then every single person in the past is a "scumbag" because the general notion that one's own race was inherently superior was basically universal throughout history up until the mid-1600's or so 8)
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Post by setokaiba on Mar 2, 2014 18:46:19 GMT -5
Lincoln maybe the nicest white supremacist in human history and the most hated white supremacist by his fellow white supremacist  |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 18:48:58 GMT -5
Lincoln maybe the nicest white supremacist in human history and the most hated white supremacist by his fellow white supremacist ... interesting observation. |
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Post by skylerb97 on Mar 2, 2014 19:00:57 GMT -5
... where are these quotes from Lincoln showing he agreed with white supremacy? I would love to read them, then find the context of them, then tell you how you're misinterpreting them. Lincoln wrote about the equality of the races while he was still in law school, which means any quotes that are actually remembered by him would have to have come from after that point, and at that point, he already recognized the essential humanity of blacks. Now, let's pretend for a second that Lincoln WAS a white supremacist. If that, by your standard, makes him a scumbag, then every single person in the past is a "scumbag" because the general notion that one's own race was inherently superior was basically universal throughout history up until the mid-1600's or so 8) I think I might've said something along the lines of "that ideology was common in his day. And that if he was his opinion possibly changed later in in life, which according to Soon it did. But yes I realized a few days ago I was misinterpreting them.. |
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Post by monkeywool on Mar 2, 2014 19:19:10 GMT -5
So yeah, Ukraine and Russia are going to drag us all into the pits of Hell by the looks of it.
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 19:47:44 GMT -5
So yeah, Ukraine and Russia are going to drag us all into the pits of Hell by the looks of it. Seems unlikely. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 2, 2014 19:50:03 GMT -5
So yeah, Ukraine and Russia are going to drag us all into the pits of Hell by the looks of it. Seems unlikely. Agreed. We've survived thousands of other idiots, I'm sure we'll survive these doofuses. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 21:39:04 GMT -5
*shrugs* I just think that the world is going to stand by and let it happen because, screw freedom, we're busy converting democracies into tyrannical oligarchies here. This has been the "free" world's MO for more than 40 years now.
"Yep, it's a real shame that those people who want to be free are being squashed by a violent and aggressive regime, but (insert BS relativistic argument that really translates into "I don't care if those people over there suffer and die" here)"
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 2, 2014 21:52:11 GMT -5
*shrugs* I just think that the world is going to stand by and let it happen because, screw freedom, we're busy converting democracies into tyrannical oligarchies here. This has been the "free" world's MO for more than 40 years now. "Yep, it's a real shame that those people who want to be free are being squashed by a violent and aggressive regime, but (insert BS relativistic argument that really translates into "I don't care if those people over there suffer and die" here)" I really hate isolationists. |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 21:55:49 GMT -5
When I was 18, I saw an act of violence in progress, and I intervened. I spent a few days in the hospital and was yelled at by everyone from my friends to the police. I even eventually had to go to court to show that I was "innocent" of a "crime."
"Why would you do that?" was the question I answered... it feels like thousands of times in that period.
I still don't understand the question.
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 21:59:15 GMT -5
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 2, 2014 22:03:08 GMT -5
When I was 18, I saw an act of violence in progress, and I intervened. I spent a few days in the hospital and was yelled at by everyone from my friends to the police. I even eventually had to go to court to show that I was "innocent" of a "crime." "Why would you do that?" was the question I answered... it feels like thousands of times in that period. I still don't understand the question. That's... horrible. Well I guess it depends on how you intervened... |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 22:04:55 GMT -5
When I was 18, I saw an act of violence in progress, and I intervened. I spent a few days in the hospital and was yelled at by everyone from my friends to the police. I even eventually had to go to court to show that I was "innocent" of a "crime." "Why would you do that?" was the question I answered... it feels like thousands of times in that period. I still don't understand the question. That's... horrible. Well I guess it depends on how you intervened... I'm awesome. That's all I have to say. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 2, 2014 22:05:02 GMT -5
I think the US is hoping to scare Russia off. It's worked before... |
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Post by wildknight on Mar 2, 2014 22:11:58 GMT -5
I think the US is hoping to scare Russia off. It's worked before... Well, for starters, even if it does work, it's a "strategy" that allows for the possibility of tens of thousands of civilian deaths, and beyond that, Russia has no reason to be afraid of a few American warships and some NATO troops. In order to fight Russia in a land war, we would need a massive international coalition, or to have a much larger standing army of our own than we've actually got. A huge portion of Europe relies on Russia for it's gasoline, so that international coalition is not coming, and given the public reaction to the War on Terror, I don't see much hope that our own military can be scaled up quickly and made into a competent fighting force. Simply put; America may not have the force of will left to engage tyranny worldwide anymore, and there sure as heck isn't anybody else out there with the combination of will and firepower to get the job done. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Mar 2, 2014 22:15:47 GMT -5
I think the US is hoping to scare Russia off. It's worked before... Simply put; America may not have the force of will left to engage tyranny worldwide anymore, and there sure as heck isn't anybody else out there with the combination of will and firepower to get the job done. Hmm... I say we call up the Scots. |
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