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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 15:55:20 GMT -5
Hopefully this 'bury' crap stops before he retires. The poor guy needs one night without being called 'shovel boy' It never will. Not giving HHH the respect he's due is a way of life, in much the same way as loving Hulk Hogan no matter what he does is a way of life in wrestling. |
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Post by skylerb97 on Apr 28, 2014 15:57:47 GMT -5
had I not known Mike based on this post I'd assume that this is a good example of his neutrality. I mean it's one thing to say HHH has received everything because of Steph, it's another to think things would work out exactly the same If he wasn't Vince's son in law? I've never said that things would have worked out exactly the same way, however, I think that the logical thing to do is compare HHH to other performers who have stayed with the company and in the ring over the same period of time. HHH's "accomplishments" don't even stack up to guys who worked half that amount of time, and as you already acknowledged, he was a top guy well before getting involved with Stephanie. Honestly, if The Rock (just for example) had stayed with the company and kept up working in the ring, do you honestly believe he wouldn't have just as many titles and a nice job in the head office? I don't feel like the Rock has enough passion (although he has a lot, or enough business sense. ) so to go with your hypothetical example I think they would've given him one but it wouldn't be one with major creative input. I just don't see that being a profitable decision but hey it's all hypothetical so I'm basing this off nothing |
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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 16:00:21 GMT -5
I've never said that things would have worked out exactly the same way, however, I think that the logical thing to do is compare HHH to other performers who have stayed with the company and in the ring over the same period of time. HHH's "accomplishments" don't even stack up to guys who worked half that amount of time, and as you already acknowledged, he was a top guy well before getting involved with Stephanie. Honestly, if The Rock (just for example) had stayed with the company and kept up working in the ring, do you honestly believe he wouldn't have just as many titles and a nice job in the head office? I don't feel like the Rock has enough passion (although he has a lot, or enough business sense. ) so to go with your hypothetical example I think they would've given him one but it wouldn't be one with major creative input. I just don't see that being a profitable decision but hey it's all hypothetical so I'm basing this off nothing Does it really matter if the job has creative input? A backstage job has pretty much always been the "reward" for a loyal worker when they get near retirement. I don't think anybody thought that Arn Anderson was going to come up with the next great idea, but WCW essentially gave him a paycheck for life (if they hadn't gone out of business) for his loyalty to the company (and if rumors can be believed, he was making more once he stopped wrestling than he was the last few years of his in-ring career) |
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muta75
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Post by muta75 on Apr 28, 2014 16:05:25 GMT -5
Hopefully this 'bury' crap stops before he retires. The poor guy needs one night without being called 'shovel boy' idiots call him that, few guys on his level worked as hard to get guys a shine.. |
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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 16:06:33 GMT -5
When people talk about HHH "burying" people I wonder if they just don't like any of the guys he put Over, and that's their excuse. I mean, you can't argue he didn't bring a lot of guys to the top... so I can only assume that they simply don't think any of those guys deserve top spots.
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Post by skylerb97 on Apr 28, 2014 16:07:03 GMT -5
It doesn't matter (see what I did there) but in my mind I was comparing what Rock would've gotten with what HHH has know. I could definitely see Rock helping guys develop mic skills and encouraging certain performers to improv a bit (as opposed to what Austin does with his revisionism and making himself out to be a great mic guy who never had any help and bitching about how "scripted" promos ate todauv
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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 16:09:31 GMT -5
LOL Austin is a trip all-around. Sometimes I listen to him just for the laugh. His ego is pretty tremendous.
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muta75
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Post by muta75 on Apr 28, 2014 16:11:05 GMT -5
When people talk about HHH "burying" people I wonder if they just don't like any of the guys he put Over, and that's their excuse. I mean, you can't argue he didn't bring a lot of guys to the top... so I can only assume that they simply don't think any of those guys deserve top spots. good question, could be that or they object to favoritism...aside from batista i think he's picked guys with something to offer and not just take. |
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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 16:12:58 GMT -5
When people talk about HHH "burying" people I wonder if they just don't like any of the guys he put Over, and that's their excuse. I mean, you can't argue he didn't bring a lot of guys to the top... so I can only assume that they simply don't think any of those guys deserve top spots. good question, could be that or they object to favoritism...aside from batista i think he's picked guys with something to offer and not just take. I honestly believe that HHH thought Batista would be better. Shortly after he gave Batista the title, their relationship soured, supposedly over Batista's declining work ethic. ... that or HHH, like his father-in-law, just gets stars in his eyes when he sees big powerfully built guys |
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Post by skylerb97 on Apr 28, 2014 16:13:26 GMT -5
When people talk about HHH "burying" people I wonder if they just don't like any of the guys he put Over, and that's their excuse. I mean, you can't argue he didn't bring a lot of guys to the top... so I can only assume that they simply don't think any of those guys deserve top spots. then again people praise the living hell out've Shawn got supposedly giving guys big moments on his second run, where as even as a fan I'd have to say a lot of the guys he "put over" (Which a fair amount of them are the same amount of guys HHH made feel important) and the "rub" (I hate using wrestling terms) he supposedly gave them is greatly exaggerated by Shawn himself and others. So yeah I think it's just not liking HHH and many people diluting the meaning of being put over |
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muta75
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Post by muta75 on Apr 28, 2014 16:17:34 GMT -5
good question, could be that or they object to favoritism...aside from batista i think he's picked guys with something to offer and not just take. I honestly believe that HHH thought Batista would be better. Shortly after he gave Batista the title, their relationship soured, supposedly over Batista's declining work ethic. ... that or HHH, like his father-in-law, just gets stars in his eyes when he sees big powerfully built guys HHH took a lil underhanded shot at batista a few years back on O & A, something along the lines of "guys blowing their money on a new muscle car every week" could have also been goldberg..few people got why i laughed at that while listening at work.. |
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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 16:18:32 GMT -5
I haven't looked up his matches, but in my memory, it seems like HBK wasn't so much putting guys Over for the most part, as he was just having solid matches with other top guys. I'm not impressed with the work he did with Angle, Undertaker, etc... but a lot of fans think those are some of the finest matches of those guys' careers, so obviously working with HBK did help them to some degree... but they were beyond being put Over at that point
(Maybe not Angle... a good program with Michaels certainly still could have helped him move from "Main Event" to "Living Legend')
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Post by TomJohns on Apr 28, 2014 16:22:53 GMT -5
I honestly believe that HHH thought Batista would be better. Shortly after he gave Batista the title, their relationship soured, supposedly over Batista's declining work ethic. ... that or HHH, like his father-in-law, just gets stars in his eyes when he sees big powerfully built guys HHH took a lil underhanded shot at batista a few years back on O & A, something along the lines of "guys blowing their money on a new muscle car every week" could have also been goldberg..few people got why i laughed at that while listening at work.. Wasn't Cena obsessed with Muscle cars a few years back also... Like to the point he had almost 20 of them?   |
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Post by skylerb97 on Apr 28, 2014 16:31:23 GMT -5
I haven't looked up his matches, but in my memory, it seems like HBK wasn't so much putting guys Over for the most part, as he was just having solid matches with other top guys. I'm not impressed with the work he did with Angle, Undertaker, etc... but a lot of fans think those are some of the finest matches of those guys' careers, so obviously working with HBK did help them to some degree... but they were beyond being put Over at that point (Maybe not Angle... a good program with Michaels certainly still could have helped him move from "Main Event" to "Living Legend') those matches are solid, although nowhere near as good as fans make them out to be and making the Mania 26 match a no holds barred was only for the purpose of doing a few outside the ring spots without being counted out As I don't recall any weapons being used. But both those guys were solid enough at that point where they didn't need weapons to put on a good match (which was the last time we could say that about Taker) I don't even need to explain why the angle matches are overrated but for what they're worth I find them to be pretty good |
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Apr 28, 2014 16:39:58 GMT -5
Crap. I've told Charlie to stop broadcasting that. For some reason or another it garners high ratings in Switzerland. Charlie gets off on it. I don't know what you've done to the poor kid. He was away on his own, happy to be free of the nightmare that was "The Wonka Decade" and you went and upset the balance again. You're an inhuman monster I said good day |
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muta75
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Post by muta75 on Apr 28, 2014 16:48:03 GMT -5
HHH took a lil underhanded shot at batista a few years back on O & A, something along the lines of "guys blowing their money on a new muscle car every week" could have also been goldberg..few people got why i laughed at that while listening at work.. Wasn't Cena obsessed with Muscle cars a few years back also... Like to the point he had almost 20 of them? not sure HHH would take a shot at Cena in an open forum like that, and batista was out of the company and excising his "i wanna fight for real" phase..so batista was the safer assumption.. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Apr 28, 2014 17:03:32 GMT -5
Also, while it may be silly to assume that Triple H "got everything that he wanted" by marrying the boss' daughter, I think it's equally silly to dismiss the notion out of hand. Neither of us know which is the case and both outcomes are possible so you're both making assumptions. Why can't you just acknowledge that you don't like HHH? You claim to be neutral toward him,a nd then post something like this. This demonstrates my point completely. Politics exist in every business. You can't get a job at Mcdonald's or a bookstore without being exposed to some kind of politics. It's sheer, unbridled common sense that when an employee marries the boss' daughter he's going to be around the boss more often than he would have been otherwise, certainly more than the average employee, whether it's by choice or simple necessity. That kind of exposure is likely to increase familiarity and strengthen a friendship. It's pretty silly to bet that Mcmahon spends more time with Rey Mysterio than he spends with the father of his own grandchildren. Saying that Triple H only got where he is because he married Stephanie (which, you'll note, isn't what I said) is dismissive and ignorant. Recognizing simple human behavior, simple human relationships, and the mathematical probability that Triple H spends more time with Vince Mcmahon if for no other reason than he HAS to (and then recognizing the simple fact that this kind of exposure is likely to breed familiarity and interpersonal comfort) is something else entirely. There's a big difference between saying "Triple H only got where he is because of who he married" and "Intentionally or otherwise, Triple H could conceivably have benefited from his unique position as the CEO's son in-law". You've argued that Triple H's accomplishments aren't enough and that they've been given by a company that doesn't appreciate him. You've also firmly argued that he's demonstrated enough specific ability to have legitimately "earned" typically hyperbolic WWE titles such as "The cerebral assassin" and "the king of kings". And lastly, you've both implied and openly argued that anyone who so much as recognizes the possibility of benefiting from a marriage to the boss' daughter MUST be biased, personally dislikes, or "has something against" the person in question. You think everyone else has a single-minded emotional bias when it comes to Triple H!? Puh-lease. |
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Post by skylerb97 on Apr 28, 2014 17:06:49 GMT -5
Why can't you just acknowledge that you don't like HHH? You claim to be neutral toward him,a nd then post something like this. This demonstrates my point completely. Politics exist in every business. You can't get a job at Mcdonald's or a bookstore without being exposed to some kind of politics. It's sheer, unbridled common sense that when an employee marries the boss' daughter he's going to be around the boss more often than he would have been otherwise, certainly more than the average employee, whether it's by choice or simple necessity. That kind of exposure is likely to increase familiarity and strengthen a friendship. It's pretty silly to bet that Mcmahon spends more time with Rey Mysterio than he spends with the father of his own grandchildren. Saying that Triple H only got where he is because he married Stephanie (which, you'll note, isn't what I said) is dismissive and ignorant. Recognizing simple human behavior, simple human relationships, and the mathematical probability that Triple H spends more time with Vince Mcmahon if for no other reason than he HAS to (and then recognizing the simple fact that this kind of exposure is likely to breed familiarity and interpersonal comfort) is something else entirely. There's a big difference between saying "Triple H only got where he is because of who he married" and "Intentionally or otherwise, Triple H could conceivably have benefited from his unique position as the CEO's son in-law". You've argued that Triple H's accomplishments aren't enough and that they've been given by a company that doesn't appreciate him. You've also firmly argued that he's demonstrated enough specific ability to have legitimately "earned" typically hyperbolic WWE titles such as "The cerebral assassin" and "the king of kings". And lastly, you've both implied and openly argued that anyone who so much as recognizes the possibility of benefiting from a marriage to the boss' daughter MUST be biased, personally dislikes, or "has something against" the person in question. You think everyone else has a single-minded emotional bias when it comes to Triple H!? Puh-lease. Mike... Umm Knight cleared this up with me when I raised the same question (in far less words) just thought I'd tell you, you know as I hate to see a good rant be useless |
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Post by wildknight on Apr 28, 2014 17:18:03 GMT -5
You've argued that Triple H's accomplishments aren't enough and that they've been given by a company that doesn't appreciate him. You've also firmly argued that he's demonstrated enough specific ability to have legitimately "earned" typically hyperbolic WWE titles such as "The cerebral assassin" and "the king of kings". And lastly, you've both implied and openly argued that anyone who so much as recognizes the possibility of benefiting from a marriage to the boss' daughter MUST be biased, personally dislikes, or "has something against" the person in question. You think everyone else has a single-minded emotional bias when it comes to Triple H!? Puh-lease. 1) I've argued that his accomplishments aren't commensurate with the other guys at his level. I never ever used the term "enough." 2) I argued that the nickname "Cerebral Assassin" was related to the way he worked matches. When the term King of Kings was brought up, I actually argued that his accomplishments DIDN'T support it, which is what started this branch of this conversation. 3) No, I have not argued that anyone who recognizes the possibility of HHH getting anything out of his marriage to Stephanie is biased. Please, by all means, show me where I've said that. I've argued that anyone who believes that HHH got EVERYTHING because of his relationship to Stephanie is clearly biased, which I'll stand by readily, particularly because he was already a World Champion before he even started dating her. You can attempt to deflect by pretending the bias is mine all you want. I think the actual facts of the conversations speak for themselves. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Apr 28, 2014 17:23:14 GMT -5
Mike... Umm Knight cleared this up with me when I raised the same question (in far less words) just thought I'd tell you, you know as I hate to see a good rant be useless He clarified a point to you as an extension of the dialogue, nothing was really cleared up regarding the dialogue between he and I. Ati brought up the suggestion that Triple H could have benefited from his marriage to Stephanie, Knight responded that it was emotional nonsense to even consider such a thing. I said that waving off the possibility as a groundless emotional reaction is itself a groundless emotional reaction, to which he immediately responded that this was somehow a biased statement that confirms my dislike of Triple H. That's what I was responding to. |
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