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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 21, 2013 10:41:11 GMT -5
The problem with your argument (and it's one that I see a lot of wrestling fans who just don't get it) is that it assumes that John Cena is as big as he is because of something inherent to himself. That couldn't be further from the truth. Cena is a product of marketing. Literally any powerfully built, inoffensive looking white guy could have become that character. John Cena brought nothing to the role. A role that literally anyone with the right face could pull off if they're given a push to the moon by an adoring promoter. I call that "Steve Austin Syndrome". |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 10:42:01 GMT -5
Scott hall is doing the right thing with his kid cody, he's having cody run the indy scene and cody might be njpw bye next year. His kid is huge too. Like a inch shorter than Nash he but can physically move. I think it 10 years cody will be a huge star Nash could move at the start of his career. I don't know why people always forget that. He used to leapfrog people, for pete's sake. How many 6'10" guys do you know that could do that? It really wasn't until WCW that he basically gave up on moving around the ring and started just throwing elbows for 20 minutes. On a related note; Kevin Nash used to use a left-handed punch to the head as a Finisher. That's sad. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 10:43:26 GMT -5
A role that literally anyone with the right face could pull off if they're given a push to the moon by an adoring promoter. I call that "Steve Austin Syndrome". It's all about being in the right place at the right time. That said... when Cena finally does turn heel, I do believe it'll have potential to revitalize the industry. |
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Rush
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Post by Rush on Dec 21, 2013 10:44:42 GMT -5
Scott hall is doing the right thing with his kid cody, he's having cody run the indy scene and cody might be njpw bye next year. His kid is huge too. Like a inch shorter than Nash he but can physically move. I think it 10 years cody will be a huge star Nash could move at the start of his career. I don't know why people always forget that. He used to leapfrog people, for pete's sake. How many 6'10" guys do you know that could do that? It really wasn't until WCW that he basically gave up on moving around the ring and started just throwing elbows for 20 minutes. On a related note; Kevin Nash used to use a left-handed punch to the head as a Finisher. That's sad. I don't remember Nash until mid 90s i was youngen. Even the. I was young for the his wcw run plus I was more of a wwf guy |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 10:46:10 GMT -5
I won't claim that Nash had great matches in WCW... but he was pure starpower there, larger than life. It's a shame he had to be such a raging prick behind the scenes.
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Post by TomJohns on Dec 21, 2013 10:46:14 GMT -5
It's a role that Brock Lesnar fits to a tee & he's damn good at it (drawing buys and crowd reaction), But he's not around much at all. Okay, for the thousandth time... BROCK LESNAR IS NOT A DRAW. Even the WWE acknowledged that his PPV buyrates were "disappointing." His merch doens't sell for $#@!. You know who cares about Brock Lesnar? Half a dozen guys who can't get their head out of 2003's ass, and nobody else. Fact: Lesnars Main-Event shows drew a lot more buys than the years before them. Extreme Rules 2012, 263,000 buys, up 25.8% from the 209,000 buys of 2011 Summerslam 2012, 358,000 buys, up from the 296,000 buys of 2011 Granted this was the year he returned. Probably not as high as WWE Expected but still drawing more than the years before. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 10:52:59 GMT -5
Fact: Lesnars Main-Event shows drew a lot more buys than the years before them. Extreme Rules 2012, 263,000 buys, up 25.8% from the 209,000 buys of 2011 Summerslam 2012, 358,000 buys, up from the 296,000 buys of 2011 Granted this was the year he returned. Probably not as high as WWE Expected but still drawing more than the years before. So Lesnar was the only thing going on at those PPVs, right? It's not as if Extreme Rules had the feud with the best average segment ratings for that entire year (Punk vs. Jericho) and SummerSlam had one of the better cards in the last several years... (Jericho/Ziggler, Bryan/Kane, Sheamus/ADR, & the continuation of Punk/Cena with Big Show thrown in because; whatever), right? Lesnar's segment ratings on RAW? Huge disappointments. Lesnar's merch sales? Huge disappointments. Buyrates for Extreme Rules? Actively described as "disappointing" by the company. Brock Lesnar is not a draw. Nobody gives a $#@! about him in 2013, except Vince McMahon, HHH, and a handful of fans who need a nostalgia handjob. Even guys like Mike who purport to find Lesnar entertaining couldn't be bothered to watch his return. I guess I should give him credit where it's due... since his return, Lesnar HAS proven that he continues to draw injuries on the guys he works with, so at least he's consistent. |
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Post by TomJohns on Dec 21, 2013 10:59:28 GMT -5
Fact: Lesnars Main-Event shows drew a lot more buys than the years before them. Extreme Rules 2012, 263,000 buys, up 25.8% from the 209,000 buys of 2011 Summerslam 2012, 358,000 buys, up from the 296,000 buys of 2011 Granted this was the year he returned. Probably not as high as WWE Expected but still drawing more than the years before. So Lesnar was the only thing going on at those PPVs, right? It's not as if Extreme Rules had the feud with the best average segment ratings for that entire year (Punk vs. Jericho) and SummerSlam had one of the better cards in the last several years... (Jericho/Ziggler, Bryan/Kane, Sheamus/ADR, & the continuation of Punk/Cena with Big Show thrown in because; whatever), right? Lesnar's segment ratings on RAW? Huge disappointments. Lesnar's merch sales? Huge disappointments. Buyrates for Extreme Rules? Actively described as "disappointing" by the company. Brock Lesnar is not a draw. Nobody gives a $#@! about him in 2013, except Vince McMahon, HHH, and a handful of fans who need a nostalgia handjob. Even guys like Mike who purport to find Lesnar entertaining couldn't be bothered to watch his return. I guess I should give him credit where it's due... since his return, Lesnar HAS proven that he continues to draw injuries on the guys he works with, so at least he's consistent. I never said that, his was the only thing on those PPV's..... A lot of people buy the PPV's based on the Main-Event, Nobody buys a boxing PPV to watch the undercard they tune in to watch the Main-Event.... Nobody goes to a concert to see the supporting act they go to see the main attraction, It's no different when it comes to the WWE. And in case you missed it, I said that those buyrates are from his return year..... Not 2013, 2013 Sucked for Lesnar main-evented PPV's  |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 11:00:46 GMT -5
I never said that, his was the only thing on those PPV's..... A lot of people buy the PPV's based on the Main-Event, Nobody buys a boxing PPV to watch the undercard they tune in to watch the Main-Event.... Nobody goes to a concert to see the supporting act they go to see the main attraction, It's no different when it comes to the WWE. And in case you missed it, I said that those buyrates are from his return year..... Not 2013, 2013 Sucked for Lesnar main-evented PPV's ... both of those PPVs had double Main Events, you realize that, right? Do you really think more people bought SummerSlam to see another tired Lesnar/HHH match, or the hottest feud of the entire year, Cena vs. Punk? 8) |
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Rush
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Post by Rush on Dec 21, 2013 11:03:10 GMT -5
Lesnar v. Hhh ugh terrible. They were worse than hhh v. Taker
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 11:04:09 GMT -5
Lesnar v. Hhh ugh terrible. They were worse than hhh v. Taker I couldn't agree more. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 21, 2013 11:04:25 GMT -5
A role that literally anyone with the right face could pull off if they're given a push to the moon by an adoring promoter. I call that "Steve Austin Syndrome". It's all about being in the right place at the right time. That said... when Cena finally does turn heel, I do believe it'll have potential to revitalize the industry. I agree. If they go balls to the wall and make him an outright confrontational asshole- none of the Hollywood Hogan shenanigans of playing a coward who runs from trouble and relies on his friends to back him up- Cena, and by extension the WWE and the business itself, could skyrocket. |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 11:06:10 GMT -5
I'd kind of love to see Cena maintain his "super Cena" abilities as a heel. The fans would love being frustrated as the guy just overcame everything thrown at him, all the while cutting heel promos and spitting hate for the fans.
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Rush
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RONDA ROUSEY IS THE WORST HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET
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Post by Rush on Dec 21, 2013 11:06:23 GMT -5
Lesnar v. Hhh ugh terrible. They were worse than hhh v. Taker I couldn't agree more. 20 mins of lesnar going for a kimura and f5ing hhh into things. Then hhh hitting a Hail Mary pedigree. But it's not hhh fault even punk had a okay match at best with lesnar |
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Rush
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RONDA ROUSEY IS THE WORST HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET
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Post by Rush on Dec 21, 2013 11:07:50 GMT -5
Super heel cena would be fantastic but to elaborate for wwe creative. They want something more generic. Cena low blowing people and such
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 11:08:22 GMT -5
20 mins of lesnar going for a kimura and f5ing hhh into things. Then hhh hitting a Hail Mary pedigree. But it's not hhh fault even punk had a okay match at best with lesnar Eh, HHH hasn't had a good match in years. He's lost a step. I think if he'd stayed consistently active in the ring he could still be working well, but all the time off for injuries and corporate business, combined with just getting older and slower, have combined to make him half the wrestler he used to be. He'd probably be okay if he went back to a more "cunning" ring style ala Old Man Ric Flair, but for some reason he insists on sticking to the powerhouse brawler stuff. |
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Post by TomJohns on Dec 21, 2013 11:09:37 GMT -5
I never said that, his was the only thing on those PPV's..... A lot of people buy the PPV's based on the Main-Event, Nobody buys a boxing PPV to watch the undercard they tune in to watch the Main-Event.... Nobody goes to a concert to see the supporting act they go to see the main attraction, It's no different when it comes to the WWE. And in case you missed it, I said that those buyrates are from his return year..... Not 2013, 2013 Sucked for Lesnar main-evented PPV's ... both of those PPVs had double Main Events, you realize that, right? Do you really think more people bought SummerSlam to see another tired Lesnar/HHH match, or the hottest feud of the entire year, Cena vs. Punk? 8) Summerslam 2012.... The first in the trilogy that is HHH VS Lesnar.... Yeah sure nobody tuned in to see that :rolleyes: I do realize that yes.... But you also have to realize it was Lesnars 2nd match since returning and HHH's first match since that years Wrestlemania. |
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Rush
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RONDA ROUSEY IS THE WORST HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET
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Post by Rush on Dec 21, 2013 11:11:52 GMT -5
20 mins of lesnar going for a kimura and f5ing hhh into things. Then hhh hitting a Hail Mary pedigree. But it's not hhh fault even punk had a okay match at best with lesnar Eh, HHH hasn't had a good match in years. He's lost a step. I think if he'd stayed consistently active in the ring he could still be working well, but all the time off for injuries and corporate business, combined with just getting older and slower, have combined to make him half the wrestler he used to be. He'd probably be okay if he went back to a more "cunning" ring style ala Old Man Ric Flair, but for some reason he insists on sticking to the powerhouse brawler stuff. I really hate hhh powerhouse brawler style. He was so much better when he wasn't so gassed up |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 21, 2013 11:12:40 GMT -5
I really hate hhh powerhouse brawler style. He was so much better when he wasn't so gassed up Sad but true. Oh well, plenty of other great wrestlers for me to enjoy |
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Post by TomJohns on Dec 21, 2013 11:12:50 GMT -5
20 mins of lesnar going for a kimura and f5ing hhh into things. Then hhh hitting a Hail Mary pedigree. But it's not hhh fault even punk had a okay match at best with lesnar Eh, HHH hasn't had a good match in years. He's lost a step. I think if he'd stayed consistently active in the ring he could still be working well, but all the time off for injuries and corporate business, combined with just getting older and slower, have combined to make him half the wrestler he used to be. He'd probably be okay if he went back to a more "cunning" ring style ala Old Man Ric Flair, but for some reason he insists on sticking to the powerhouse brawler stuff. I said this before, Look at all of HHH's opponents over the past few years. Taker, Kevin Nash & Brock Lesnar to name a few.... He is always one to stick to the style of the person he's wrestling or to the style of the match they are in, And all of those matches have been matches that require him to brawl with the opponent |
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