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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jul 13, 2014 15:26:59 GMT -5
That IS what atheists believe. No it's not. Atheism is just a lack of belief No, atheism is the belief that there is no God. |
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Post by setokaiba on Jul 13, 2014 15:27:33 GMT -5
You're an atheist if you're 100% sure there is no god. You're an agnostic, Seto. Atheism is a lack of belief Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge |
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Post by wildknight on Jul 13, 2014 15:28:18 GMT -5
I'm not trying to start anything with the Christians in this chat, but I find extremely hard to believe there's an all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful God out there when the world is in the shit it's in. I find it hard to believe when there are people who have done nothing wrong, but suffer the greatest griefs and tragedies. I don't get why there would be a God that would let this happen. If he's all-knowing, by creating the world he did, he knew from the first moment that his creations would be going through things like this. So why would he do that? Why would the all loving God allow a world like this with so much sorrow and hate and war and everything else come to be? The only thing that I can think of is that he enjoys it. That he finds some cruel joy in watching over the pain. Otherwise, if this God is all knowing, meaning he knew how it would be, what's the point? It is very understandable to think that way. I used to think like that too. It's actually a 100% arrogant and selfish worldview... which is why most people hold it. "If God doesn't think what I would think, do what I would do and say what I would say, he can't be God. If God doesn't define everything the way I want it defined, especially love, then he cannot be God." ... which inherently assumes that you yourself are not only Omniscient, but also perfectly upright in all of your thoughts and actions. FYI, don't buy into that "because; free will" crap. It's not even the right answer. It's true, but it's not the right answer. The answer to "why is there suffering in the world" is because; fallen creation. When Adam & Eve sinned, ALL of creation fell under the sway of sin, death, and the power of the Devil. Evil is part of who we are, and it's also part of every element of creation. We lie, cheat, steal, and murder because it is who we are deep down, every moment of every day. |
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Post by setokaiba on Jul 13, 2014 15:28:31 GMT -5
No it's not. Atheism is just a lack of belief Atheism is the belief that there is no God. How is that a lack of belief? Belief and Knowledge are not one in the same. |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jul 13, 2014 15:30:03 GMT -5
You're an atheist if you're 100% sure there is no god. You're an agnostic, Seto. Atheism is a lack of belief Ask yourself this: What does the prefix "A-" mean? Now ask yourself this: What does a Theist believe? |
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 13, 2014 15:33:30 GMT -5
The reason the world is the way it is, is because God loves us enough to give us free will. There are those who abuse that gift, and thus, the world is "fucked up". Remember, according to Christian beliefs, this world became evil when sin was introduced. God doesn't enjoy it, that is why he came to Earth in the form of a man, his son, Jesus Christ. He wants us to be redeemed, so he sent his son to die on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice, that we may be saved. How was Jesus "death" really a sacrifice? How can we consider a killing yourself to yourself a sacrifice? Not to mention they will come back in three days. And what good is "free will" if we are going to punish for using it? God is all powerful if he didn't want evil to exist he could just prevent it. When Jesus was tortured and hung on the cross to die, he had taken all of mankind's sin upon himself. Jesus lived a sinless and perfect life, which makes his death the ultimate sacrifice. He died on that cross so that we would not have to suffer eternal damnation. When he rose from the dead, he proved that he had beaten sin and death and that he truly is the son of God. Man is punished for abusing our free will by sinning against God. If he were to not give us free will and just say "You all are going to believe this, and live like this.", that wouldn't be love. |
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Post by setokaiba on Jul 13, 2014 15:39:37 GMT -5
Atheism is a lack of belief Ask yourself this: What does the prefix "A-" mean? Now ask yourself this: What does a Theist believe? Without or a lack of A belief in a at least one god. Theism is a belief system not what a person know. Atheism is the lack of that belief system. |
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Post by charliebucketsgranpa on Jul 13, 2014 15:40:33 GMT -5
How was Jesus "death" really a sacrifice? How can we consider a killing yourself to yourself a sacrifice? Not to mention they will come back in three days. And what good is "free will" if we are going to punish for using it? God is all powerful if he didn't want evil to exist he could just prevent it. When Jesus was tortured and hung on the cross to die, he had taken all of mankind's sin upon himself. Jesus lived a sinless and perfect life, which makes his death the ultimate sacrifice. He died on that cross so that we would not have to suffer eternal damnation. When he rose from the dead, he proved that he had beaten sin and death and that he truly is the son of God. Man is punished for abusing our free will by sinning against God. If he were to not give us free will and just say "You all are going to believe this, and live like this.", that wouldn't be love. Exactly. I believe that when Jesus died he absorbed all of God's wrath that way we as humans (who are sinners) wouldn't have to suffer the wrath of God as long as we believe in Jesus. |
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Post by MrEdgeFan on Jul 13, 2014 15:42:30 GMT -5
It is very understandable to think that way. I used to think like that too. It's actually a 100% arrogant and selfish worldview... which is why most people hold it. "If God doesn't think what I would think, do what I would do and say what I would say, he can't be God. If God doesn't define everything the way I want it defined, especially love, then he cannot be God." ... which inherently assumes that you yourself are not only Omniscient, but also perfectly upright in all of your thoughts and actions. FYI, don't buy into that "because; free will" crap. It's not even the right answer. It's true, but it's not the right answer. The answer to "why is there suffering in the world" is because; fallen creation. When Adam & Eve sinned, ALL of creation fell under the sway of sin, death, and the power of the Devil. Evil is part of who we are, and it's also part of every element of creation. We lie, cheat, steal, and murder because it is who we are deep down, every moment of every day. No, no, no... what I don't get about God is why he allows pain. Why even have it be something possible? WHY?! What's the gain from pain and sorrow and death and hate and all of that? What really does God see in all those things? Why couldn't he make a world the way he wants it to be by his rules? Why give us the freewill to piss about like morons, which he knew full well what we'd do? |
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 13, 2014 15:42:35 GMT -5
Ask yourself this: What does the prefix "A-" mean? Now ask yourself this: What does a Theist believe? Without or a lack of A belief in a at least one god. Theism is a belief system not what a person know. Atheism is the lack of that belief system. Atheists believe that there is no God. That isn't a lack of belief at all. Like it or not, atheism is a religion. |
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Post by wildknight on Jul 13, 2014 15:44:42 GMT -5
How was Jesus "death" really a sacrifice? How can we consider a killing yourself to yourself a sacrifice? Not to mention they will come back in three days. And what good is "free will" if we are going to punish for using it? God is all powerful if he didn't want evil to exist he could just prevent it. When Jesus was tortured and hung on the cross to die, he had taken all of mankind's sin upon himself. Jesus lived a sinless and perfect life, which makes his death the ultimate sacrifice. He died on that cross so that we would not have to suffer eternal damnation. When he rose from the dead, he proved that he had beaten sin and death and that he truly is the son of God. Man is punished for abusing our free will and sinning against God. If he were to not give us free will and just say "You all are going to believe this, and live like this.", that wouldn't be love. "And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.” - Jesus (Mark 6:11) Realize that you're trying to answer someone who does not genuinely want answers. They have constructed reasons for themselves to reject the free gift of grace. God is beyond human reason, and the sole answer to many of these questions is "We do not know, because God is sovereign, and his thoughts are immeasurably distant from our own." They will then respond "that's a cop out" and you'll be compelled to try to explain things for which you do not have a God-given (read; Biblical) explanation. The ONLY answer you are called upon to give when confronted by someone who is hostile to the faith (which they will claim they are not, but their statements reveal otherwise) is; "always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect," - (1 Peter 3:15) The reason for our hope is simple; Jesus. If they reject the Gospel, no argument of logic is going to change their heart. |
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Post by setokaiba on Jul 13, 2014 15:46:03 GMT -5
Without or a lack of A belief in a at least one god. Theism is a belief system not what a person know. Atheism is the lack of that belief system. Atheists believe that there is no God. That isn't a lack of belief at all. Like it or not, atheism is a religion. You just said Atheist believe there is no god just to turn around and say that's not a lack of belief. I'm a religion is the belief and worship of god or gods. Atheism has none of that. |
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 13, 2014 15:48:05 GMT -5
Atheists believe that there is no God. That isn't a lack of belief at all. Like it or not, atheism is a religion. You just said Atheist believe there is no god just to turn around and say that's not a lack of belief. |
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Post by wildknight on Jul 13, 2014 15:50:03 GMT -5
Atheists believe that there is no God. That isn't a lack of belief at all. Like it or not, atheism is a religion. You just said Atheist believe there is no god just to turn around and say that's not a lack of belief. I'm a religion is the belief and worship of god or gods. Atheism has none of that. Yep, you're wrong. Enjoy that. |
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Post by setokaiba on Jul 13, 2014 15:52:57 GMT -5
You just said Atheist believe there is no god just to turn around and say that's not a lack of belief. I'm a religion is the belief and worship of god or gods. Atheism has none of that. Yep, you're wrong. Enjoy that. 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. Where does it say atheist claim for 100% we know there is no god? |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jul 13, 2014 15:53:12 GMT -5
Ask yourself this: What does the prefix "A-" mean? Now ask yourself this: What does a Theist believe? Without or a lack of A belief in a at least one god. Theism is a belief system not what a person know. Atheism is the lack of that belief system. You hit the bullseye yet you missed the target. Let's try this again. Theism: With god/gods. Atheism: Without god/gods |
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Post by wildknight on Jul 13, 2014 15:54:04 GMT -5
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. Where does it say atheist claim for 100% we know there is no god? ... do you know what "Doctrine" means? You're being ridiculous. Luckily, you know that, so I'm not wasting another moment on this |
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Post by SoonDragon67 on Jul 13, 2014 15:54:28 GMT -5
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. Where does it say atheist claim for 100% we know there is no god? *Has no words* |
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Post by WhoCares? on Jul 13, 2014 15:56:31 GMT -5
Where does it say atheist claim for 100% we know there is no god? *facepalm* "the doctrine or belief that there is no God." |
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Post by setokaiba on Jul 13, 2014 15:56:57 GMT -5
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. Where does it say atheist claim for 100% we know there is no god? ... do you know what "Doctrine" means? You're being ridiculous. Luckily, you know that, so I'm not wasting another moment on this Doctrine: a set of ideas or beliefs that are taught or believed to be true a statement of government policy especially in international relations www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/doctrine |
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