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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 18:12:55 GMT -5
Oh god, "You've Got the Touch". That will always represent Boogie Nights to me, and I'm a happier person for it.
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Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 18:15:49 GMT -5
Dunno, I honestly don't. Before the movie, if I'd been given a survey and challenged to answer a yes or no question that asked me whether humans were a central part of the Transformers universe, I would have hesitated with my pencil over the "no" circle. That's just... bizarre. They were featured in virtually every episode. They even went to Cybertron with the Autobots in the episodes where they made the Aerialbots. On a related note; I just watched Optimus' death in the original animated movie. It made me cry. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 18:17:37 GMT -5
I'm hoping beyond hope that the next 75 transformers movies are going to be good. Bay can do what he wants to them, I'll watch them for what they are.
If he breaks the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles though, I'll break him.
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Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 18:20:58 GMT -5
I kind of think the Turtles movie is doomed. I remember reading once where they asked Lucas after the release of TPM if he listened to fan input, and he basically said "after the things they said when Menace released, why would I ever listen to them?"
I suspect that Bay is feeling much the same way after having his Transformers movies panned.
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 18:21:53 GMT -5
Dunno, I honestly don't. Before the movie, if I'd been given a survey and challenged to answer a yes or no question that asked me whether humans were a central part of the Transformers universe, I would have hesitated with my pencil over the "no" circle. That's just... bizarre. They were featured in virtually every episode. They even went to Cybertron with the Autobots in the episodes where they made the Aerialbots. On a related note; I just watched Optimus' death in the original animated movie. It made me cry. Is that where he gives the super death cube to Rodimus or something? Or was it Starscream? See, I didn't follow this crap. I just know that I like watching giant transforming robots fucking each other up. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 18:23:12 GMT -5
I have a feeling it is too, Megan Fox is in it.
However, I shall look on it optimistically and hope for the best as that's what I do.
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Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 18:24:43 GMT -5
Is that where he gives the super death cube to Rodimus or something? Or was it Starscream? See, I didn't follow this crap. I just know that I like watching giant transforming robots f***ing each other up. Hot Rod does end up getting the Matrix of Leadership and becoming Rodimus, yes... but Ultra Magnus was supposed to get it. The Matrix just didn't want him. 8) I like the Transformers lore. It's very rich. Like just about any other long-running science fiction, you have to pick parts of it and leave some behind if you want to make a cohesive whole, but it's still a lot of fun. I'm currently trying to find (without having to pay for) all of the episodes of Robotech so I can relive that awesomeness. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 18:25:36 GMT -5
I kind of think the Turtles movie is doomed. I remember reading once where they asked Lucas after the release of TPM if he listened to fan input, and he basically said "after the things they said when Menace released, why would I ever listen to them?" I suspect that Bay is feeling much the same way after having his Transformers movies panned. Good. He made a terrible movie. People have been trying to stop him from making another one. That's a noble thing to do. Are you referring to an old Lucas quote? Because it sounds very similar to something he said regarding the new trilogy. When asked last year whether he'd be directing the new films he said something like "When you've heard every day for years how much of a terrible person you are, why would you want to?" |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 18:26:47 GMT -5
Is that where he gives the super death cube to Rodimus or something? Or was it Starscream? See, I didn't follow this crap. I just know that I like watching giant transforming robots f***ing each other up. Hot Rod does end up getting the Matrix of Leadership and becoming Rodimus, yes... but Ultra Magnus was supposed to get it. The Matrix just didn't want him. 8) I like the Transformers lore. It's very rich. Like just about any other long-running science fiction, you have to pick parts of it and leave some behind if you want to make a cohesive whole, but it's still a lot of fun. I'm currently trying to find (without having to pay for) all of the episodes of Robotech so I can relive that awesomeness. Yeah, now I can see why you have this secret love for the films- you care to follow this nonsense.  |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 18:27:29 GMT -5
Are you referring to an old Lucas quote? Because it sounds very similar to something he said regarding the new trilogy. When asked last year whether he'd be directing the new films he said something like "When you've heard every day for years how much of a terrible person you are, why would you want to?" Now that you mention it, it might have been that. I do know that he was very dismissive of complaints regarding TPM though (and honestly... it wasn't as bad of a movie as it felt like at the time, it was just a HUGE shock to have something "Star Wars" fail so badly on so many levels). |
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Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 18:28:09 GMT -5
yeah, now I can see why you have this secret love for the films- you care to follow this nonsense. That's about the size of it. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 18:31:14 GMT -5
I've said it before, if TPM had been the first star wars film released then people would have viewed it much differently. It was different to what we all knew and loved because it was nearly 20 years after the original trilogy ended. Star Wars fans grew up but the prequels didn't grow with them.
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Post by wildknight on Dec 2, 2013 18:33:32 GMT -5
I've said it before, if TPM had been the first star wars film released then people would have viewed it much differently. It was different to what we all knew and loved because it was nearly 20 years after the original trilogy ended. Star Wars fans grew up but the prequels didn't grow with them. You can't honestly say that the entire problem was based in fan perception... yes, ANH was theoretically aimed at kids, but what was "for kids" in 1977 was vastly different than what was "for kids" in 99. I don't recall a bunch of fart and poop jokes in ANH, nor was there a precocious child protagonist. |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 18:42:38 GMT -5
I've said it before, if TPM had been the first star wars film released then people would have viewed it much differently. It was different to what we all knew and loved because it was nearly 20 years after the original trilogy ended. Star Wars fans grew up but the prequels didn't grow with them. You can't honestly say that the entire problem was based in fan perception... yes, ANH was theoretically aimed at kids, but what was "for kids" in 1977 was vastly different than what was "for kids" in 99. I don't recall a bunch of fart and poop jokes in ANH, nor was there a precocious child protagonist. Not the entire problem, no. A lot of it though, sure. Star Wars prequels were aimed at kids of 1999, much like Star Wars was aimed at kids of 77. As you said, these are completely different genres and Lucas would have been better served aiming the prequels atthe kids of '77 instead of reaching out and trying to please everyone. This is where he failed, he tried to make it more relevant to modern kids, forgetting he was 20 years older and out of touch with youth. In this he was also out of touch with his core audience from 22 years previous. He pitched it completely wrong. With saying that though, if the films had gone in sequence and the prequels came first, people would definitely see them much differently and they wouldn't have gotten anywhere near as much abuse as they did. Especially TPM. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 18:45:07 GMT -5
Are you referring to an old Lucas quote? Because it sounds very similar to something he said regarding the new trilogy. When asked last year whether he'd be directing the new films he said something like "When you've heard every day for years how much of a terrible person you are, why would you want to?" Now that you mention it, it might have been that. I do know that he was very dismissive of complaints regarding TPM though (and honestly... it wasn't as bad of a movie as it felt like at the time, it was just a HUGE shock to have something "Star Wars" fail so badly on so many levels). Well, I support an artist's right to dismiss complaints about his work, even if they're nearly unanimous and incredibly well-founded. However I'd be lying if I said that I didn't walk into TPM with some concern and healthy reservations about some of the things I'd read, and left the theater feeling really confused and apologizing to my girlfriend for telling her that "this movie will be a great point to get into the series and see why we love it so much". |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 18:48:12 GMT -5
I've said it before, if TPM had been the first star wars film released then people would have viewed it much differently. It was different to what we all knew and loved because it was nearly 20 years after the original trilogy ended. Star Wars fans grew up but the prequels didn't grow with them. You can't honestly say that the entire problem was based in fan perception... yes, ANH was theoretically aimed at kids, but what was "for kids" in 1977 was vastly different than what was "for kids" in 99. I don't recall a bunch of fart and poop jokes in ANH, nor was there a precocious child protagonist. Precocious and nightmarishly acted. And not just fart and poop jokes but lines like "Exsqueeze me". |
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 18:49:38 GMT -5
You can't honestly say that the entire problem was based in fan perception... yes, ANH was theoretically aimed at kids, but what was "for kids" in 1977 was vastly different than what was "for kids" in 99. I don't recall a bunch of fart and poop jokes in ANH, nor was there a precocious child protagonist. Precocious and nightmarishly acted. And not just fart and poop jokes but lines like "Exsqueeze me". In fairness, some of the original star wars acting wasn't exactly stellar. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 19:01:19 GMT -5
It wasn't- it was fairly bad (minus Alec Guinness, who himself wasn't anything profound in my opinion) and I feel that the script was nothing mind-blowing either- but it was still much better than the sloppy production that I felt TPM was. While the plot was simplistic it was at least told clearly and with endearing sweep and gusto. TPM was just a slick, soulless technical production to impress the kiddies. That's how I look at it, anyway.
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Post by monkeywool on Dec 2, 2013 19:04:09 GMT -5
It wasn't- it was fairly bad (minus Alec Guinness, who himself wasn't anything profound in my opinion) and I feel that the script was nothing mind-blowing either- but it was still much better than the sloppy production that I felt TPM was. While the plot was simplistic it was at least told clearly and with endearing sweep and gusto. TPM was just a slick, soulless technical production to impress the kiddies. That's how I look at it, anyway. It was, much like the original Star Wars was the same thing, but 22 years beforehand. It just happened to have charm and people took to it. |
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Post by miketheratguy on Dec 2, 2013 19:19:39 GMT -5
I don't personally agree. While A New Hope is my least favorite of the original trilogy (due mainly to the fact that I find it the most crude, clumsy, simplistic, and relatively boring of the three) I still feel that it's a technically capable film that had a great charm and featured interesting, likeable characters in service of a story that was fun and easily digestible. What did The Phantom menace do that was akin to any of this? What did TPM do that was even any good? It had pretty special effects, I guess I'll give it that.
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