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Post by miketheratguy on May 10, 2014 15:49:52 GMT -5
Qui Gon and Jango Fett, as much as I liked them, could be removed entirely and not much would be affected. The clone storyline is the most important element of the ones you listed, or at least would presumably be, but since the prequel trilogy more or less glossed over the actual Clone Wars in their entirety it's sort of a mystery as to why so much time was spent establishing the backstory in film 2. If the plan all along was to make Clone Wars spinoffs, cartoons, a CGI series and its own movie, which seems to have been the case, then the entire Jango Fett thread could have been dropped from the film and introduced in one of those other things instead. Not much time needed to have been spent on him at all anyway, the character was more or less fan service. As for Qui Gon, I don't think the films would have suffered by simply focusing on a matured Obi-Wan right from the get go. I agree. I think Qui Gon's whole purpose was to show Obi-Wan in Anakin's position prior to Anakin becoming the main character.
Jango DID help improve Boba Fett's backstory for the older trilogy... though they hardly gave any effort in characterizing Boba in the old trilogy anyways.
Right, and that's what I mean. Nothing really changed about Boba- we basically just traded his mystique for some character motivation and confirmation of the long-standing belief that he was, in fact, a clone. That's really about it. If anything, the addition of his background story retroactively damages one of the original Star Wars films by making his death far more anticlimactic than some already perceived it to be. As for Qui Gon, again, I actually really liked the character, but you're exactly right. His whole purpose was basically to mirror the Obi-Wan / Luke relationship in the original trilogy and to advance Obi-Wan's character as a wiser, more mature character. That's nice and all, but was it really necessary for an entire film to establish this narrative? Did anyone actually spend 16 years saying "Man, I really wish they'd make more Star Wars movies so I could see Obi Wan as a plucky teenager"? |
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Post by skylerb97 on May 10, 2014 16:53:03 GMT -5
I actually watched the last season of Clone wars today. The back stories behind Order 66 and Force ghost were pretty well done (how do we not have a Star Wars thread by now, btw?. I'm sure someone will start one will make one when episode Vii gets close to being released)
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Post by Straight Edge Steve on May 10, 2014 16:59:16 GMT -5
I actually watched the last season of Clone wars today. The back stories behind Order 66 and Force ghost were pretty well done (how do we not have a Star Wars thread by now, btw?. I'm sure someone will start one will make one when episode Vii gets close to being released) I love discussing Star Wars because of the easily interpreted plot of the movies. |
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Post by skylerb97 on May 10, 2014 17:00:21 GMT -5
 that movie could almost not happen and II and III would be almost unaffected That's one of the biggest (and in my opinion, most valid) arguments against The Phantom Menace: That in terms of moving the most important plot elements forward, the movie was essentially one giant waste of time. Aside from the Sith revealing their presence and the discovery and subsequent recruitment of Anakin, virtually nothing in that film actually matters. It's been said that Revenge of the Sith should have been the first film in the prequel trilogy because no one's interested in any of the stuff that happened before it. While I wouldn't go quite that far, I do see why people would say such a thing. One could probably take the most important bits of the first two prequels, add them to Revenge of the Sith, and wind up with just a single prequel film that's maybe half an hour longer. Also: Britney Spears was HUGE by the time TPM came out. Her debut album (and its annoying eponymous single) was all over the place months before the movie was released. Attack of the clones could've been interesting if they'd gone about telling the story the right way. Since I'm not a Star Wars buff or an accomplished script writer here's a video that explains what I mean |
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Post by Straight Edge Steve on May 10, 2014 17:02:13 GMT -5
Attack of the Clones was nothing more than a set-up movie. Literally not a single important character died. Oddly enough, the Stars Wars: Clone Wars movie follows the exact same formula.
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Post by skylerb97 on May 10, 2014 17:02:46 GMT -5
I actually watched the last season of Clone wars today. The back stories behind Order 66 and Force ghost were pretty well done (how do we not have a Star Wars thread by now, btw?. I'm sure someone will start one will make one when episode Vii gets close to being released) I love discussing Star Wars because of the easily interpreted plot of the movies. what part of my post does this pertain too? Not being snarky, it's a legitimate question. Your post was just a little vague steve |
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Post by skylerb97 on May 10, 2014 17:05:11 GMT -5
Attack of the Clones was nothing more than a set-up movie. Literally not a single important character died. Oddly enough, the Stars Wars: Clone Wars movie follows the exact same formula. I wouldn't have watched that movie had it not come on CN on a Saturday when I was like 12, but yeah it does nothing except introduce the characters. I don't even think it gives a lot of back story about the clone Wars themselves either. Neither did the show until maybe the last episodes of Season 6 |
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Post by Straight Edge Steve on May 10, 2014 17:10:01 GMT -5
I love discussing Star Wars because of the easily interpreted plot of the movies. what part of my post does this pertain too? Not being snarky, it's a legitimate question. Your post was just a little vague steve It wasn't really answering anything. I was just saying that, "Hey making a thread would be great, because I love discussing Star Wars" |
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Post by skylerb97 on May 10, 2014 17:12:34 GMT -5
I might make one just for the heck of it once this dies. I need to create another exciting thread since the comics and video game ones were started by someone else on here
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Post by wildknight on May 10, 2014 18:17:38 GMT -5
I don't get why anyone likes Qui-Gon, other than "because; Liam Neeson." His presence represented a tremendous tear in the established canon, and added nothing to the movie.
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Post by skylerb97 on May 10, 2014 19:06:20 GMT -5
I don't get why anyone likes Qui-Gon, other than "because; Liam Neeson." His presence represented a tremendous tear in the established canon, and added nothing to the movie. if the movie just would've focused on an Anakin/Obiwan dynamic from the start minus Qui-Gon with Kenobi being at first reluctant to train him, but warming up to him over the course of PM. maybe the first movie would've been more interesting |
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Post by miketheratguy on May 11, 2014 2:12:33 GMT -5
I don't get why anyone likes Qui-Gon, other than "because; Liam Neeson." His presence represented a tremendous tear in the established canon, and added nothing to the movie. Yup, I'll readily admit that it's basically just the Neeson factor. I like the character's demeanor- his stoic reserve, his wizened speech, the way he looks and carries himself. And that's essentially all Neeson. I like the guy because he's pretty much the one noble element of a sad hot mess of a film. |
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Post by miketheratguy on May 11, 2014 2:18:58 GMT -5
Attack of the clones could've been interesting if they'd gone about telling the story the right way. I'm actually a fan of AOTC, in the sense that I didn't hate it and there were actually some things about it that I really liked. The only entry in the series that I legitimately hate is Phantom Menace. Clones was clunky as hell and featured some of the absolute worst scenes and acting in the entire franchise, but I think that after the disaster that was TPM Lucas seemed a little more comfortable and made a moderately tighter, more entertaining movie overall. And whether one loves or hates the Yoda fight at the end, being there at the midnight premiere and hearing the theater cheer and scream so loudly that it actually drowned out the sound of the film was a pretty special experience that I'll never forget. |
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Post by wildknight on May 11, 2014 6:33:14 GMT -5
I don't get why anyone likes Qui-Gon, other than "because; Liam Neeson." His presence represented a tremendous tear in the established canon, and added nothing to the movie. Yup, I'll readily admit that it's basically just the Neeson factor. I like the character's demeanor- his stoic reserve, his wizened speech, the way he looks and carries himself. And that's essentially all Neeson. I like the guy because he's pretty much the one noble element of a sad hot mess of a film. I dunno, I kind of thought he was an arrogant douchebag without whom "Darth Vader" would never have happened. Before Qui-Gon stepped in and insisted that Lil' Orphan Ani just HAD TO BE TRAINED! Obi-Wan seemed much more inclined to just do what the Masters told him and let Anakin have a normal life. We're also outright told that Qui-Gon has a bad attitude and it's kept him off of the council 8) |
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Post by miketheratguy on May 11, 2014 6:44:07 GMT -5
Yup, I'll readily admit that it's basically just the Neeson factor. I like the character's demeanor- his stoic reserve, his wizened speech, the way he looks and carries himself. And that's essentially all Neeson. I like the guy because he's pretty much the one noble element of a sad hot mess of a film. I dunno, I kind of thought he was an arrogant douchebag without whom "Darth Vader" would never have happened. Before Qui-Gon stepped in and insisted that Lil' Orphan Ani just HAD TO BE TRAINED! Obi-Wan seemed much more inclined to just do what the Masters told him and let Anakin have a normal life. We're also outright told that Qui-Gon has a bad attitude and it's kept him off of the council 8) Hmm...all good points, but then wouldn't the flipside of this mean that by finding, rescuing, and insisting on pushing Ani and his SUPER MIDOCHLORIANS Qui Gon wound up bringing about the balance of the Force? If I remember correctly Obi-Wan was like "Dude, fuck this little pud". I think that's a verbatim quote. |
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Post by wildknight on May 11, 2014 6:46:40 GMT -5
I dunno, I kind of thought he was an arrogant douchebag without whom "Darth Vader" would never have happened. Before Qui-Gon stepped in and insisted that Lil' Orphan Ani just HAD TO BE TRAINED! Obi-Wan seemed much more inclined to just do what the Masters told him and let Anakin have a normal life. We're also outright told that Qui-Gon has a bad attitude and it's kept him off of the council 8) Hmm...all good points, but then wouldn't the flipside of this mean that by finding, rescuing, and insisting on pushing Ani and his SUPER MIDOCHLORIANS Qui Gon wound up bringing about the balance of the Force? If I remember correctly Obi-Wan was like "Dude, fuck this little pud". I think that's a verbatim quote. This is all true. Sadly including the midichlorians part. BTW, I just watched ROTJ with my kids back on May 4th, and either Obi-Wan's memory is going in his Force ghost old age, or he's still lying to Luke left and right. He tells Luke that Anakin was already a great pilot when they met, and a good friend. Obviously Alec Guinness hadn't seen the prequels. |
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Post by WSS? on May 11, 2014 7:01:11 GMT -5
Being dead is a pain, trust me.
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Post by miketheratguy on May 11, 2014 7:01:56 GMT -5
Hmm...all good points, but then wouldn't the flipside of this mean that by finding, rescuing, and insisting on pushing Ani and his SUPER MIDOCHLORIANS Qui Gon wound up bringing about the balance of the Force? If I remember correctly Obi-Wan was like "Dude, fuck this little pud". I think that's a verbatim quote. This is all true. Sadly including the midichlorians part. BTW, I just watched ROTJ with my kids back on May 4th, and either Obi-Wan's memory is going in his Force ghost old age, or he's still lying to Luke left and right. He tells Luke that Anakin was already a great pilot when they met, and a good friend. Obviously Alec Guinness hadn't seen the prequels. I guess I'd have to see it again. It's been a while since I watched ROTJ (which is kind of strange considering that, aside from the Ewok stuff, I'm a very big fan of it) but I remember that after wrapping up the prequel trilogy with my then-girlfriend we watched Jedi and were fairly impressed with the series' consistency. Anakin WAS a great pilot when they met, wasn't he? I thought that whole dumbass podrace scene (all fifteen minutes of it, and I honestly don't think I'm exaggerating) was supposed to establish that. And he does manage to help turn the tide of the Gungan war (or whatever the hell was happening) at the end of TPM by jumping into a stray fighter and badly reciting lines to R2. As for being a good friend, that's true too isn't it? That whole "you were my brother, Anakin. I loved you" thing? I think you're probably referring to something specific that I just don't happen to recall at the moment, it's been a while since I've seen these. What actually always bothered me about Obi-Wan in ROTJ was the fact that he wasn't really some corporeal figure in the mist, he was now more or less a regular guy who just plopped right down on a log to have a direct question and answer session with Luke as if he'd never even died or otherwise lost physical form. I mean, if that's what Jedis get to do when they die then hell, sign me up and kill me. |
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Post by wildknight on May 11, 2014 11:40:24 GMT -5
I don't know, I don't think the podrace establishes that Anakin is a great pilot... racing pods and piloting starships isn't really the same thing. It is true that I fell asleep during the podrace scene on opening night of TPM (seriously, ask my wife, that scene was THAT boring), so I might have missed something. What I DO remember is that when Anakin got into an actual spaceship, he survives only via the sheer incompetence of his enemies and a number of ridiculous lucky circumstances, like failing to find the control system that he's looking for but accidentally finding an even more advantageous control system that automatically does the most advantageous thing for him at that exact moment... TWICE.
Regarding their "friendship"... they repeatedly SAY that they're friends, brothers, etc throughout the second and third movies, but we never actually see any of that on screen. What we do see is that Obi-Wan doesn't trust Anakin and honestly sometimes doesn't even seem to like him, while Anakin deeply resents Obi-Wan and consistently blames him for his failings.
I would think that, when speaking in retrospect, an Obi-Wan who actually remembered being in the prequels would have realized that Anakin was always kind of a psychotic little nert.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 11:45:14 GMT -5
Okay, what's her username? |
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